Manoi available for sale at RoboSavvy

Takahashi's design (robo-garage.com), Kondo servos and controller, and kit production by RC company Kyosho brought to life PF01.
37 postsPage 3 of 31, 2, 3
37 postsPage 3 of 31, 2, 3

Post by slashsplat » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:56 am

Post by slashsplat
Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:56 am

PaulP wrote:...Is the firmware on an RCB3 upgradeable?
Not to my ignorant knowledge. Seen NOTHING to indicate that is possible.

PaulP wrote:...Is the firmware on Manoi and KHR-1HV the same?
There are two RCB-3 controllers, one is designated the "J" modela and does not support the "serial" mode of the Kondo servos. I don't remember what the the 1HV uses...

PaulP wrote:...What is the link just below the servo 1 connection for?
That would be the "power supply" setup pins, if you mean the one immediately next to servo 1. The next three below that one are the analog inputs for the servos. I cannot find what the power pins are for...

PaulP wrote:...They appear to be manufactured with the intention that some people will take them further. Am I right in thinking this?
I don't really think so. They barely post the protocol for the comm to the board, much less allow you much in the way of custom programming. What exactly might you be talking about?

PaulP wrote:...are Kondo and other manufacturers approachable?
Not from what I have seen. Vendors have been researching for months HOW to get me the parts to add waist movement and cannot even get an answer on what to BUY. Given that, and their apparent inability to talk directly to the manufacturers, as opposed to a Japanese distributor, it does not seem like they are AT ALL approachable. This will change as we develop a REAL market here in the US... Things are much different in Japan. And none of the vendors seem to be able to speak Japanese...

The only English-speaking person in the World who seems to be able to dialogue with them is Lem, the tempusmaster... He LIVES in Japan. And he is 6'4", so he has the physical advantage :-)
PaulP wrote:...Is the firmware on an RCB3 upgradeable?
Not to my ignorant knowledge. Seen NOTHING to indicate that is possible.

PaulP wrote:...Is the firmware on Manoi and KHR-1HV the same?
There are two RCB-3 controllers, one is designated the "J" modela and does not support the "serial" mode of the Kondo servos. I don't remember what the the 1HV uses...

PaulP wrote:...What is the link just below the servo 1 connection for?
That would be the "power supply" setup pins, if you mean the one immediately next to servo 1. The next three below that one are the analog inputs for the servos. I cannot find what the power pins are for...

PaulP wrote:...They appear to be manufactured with the intention that some people will take them further. Am I right in thinking this?
I don't really think so. They barely post the protocol for the comm to the board, much less allow you much in the way of custom programming. What exactly might you be talking about?

PaulP wrote:...are Kondo and other manufacturers approachable?
Not from what I have seen. Vendors have been researching for months HOW to get me the parts to add waist movement and cannot even get an answer on what to BUY. Given that, and their apparent inability to talk directly to the manufacturers, as opposed to a Japanese distributor, it does not seem like they are AT ALL approachable. This will change as we develop a REAL market here in the US... Things are much different in Japan. And none of the vendors seem to be able to speak Japanese...

The only English-speaking person in the World who seems to be able to dialogue with them is Lem, the tempusmaster... He LIVES in Japan. And he is 6'4", so he has the physical advantage :-)
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Post by PaulP » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:37 am

Post by PaulP
Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:37 am

thanks for that slashsplat

the 1HV uses the RCB3 not the J, as does the Manoi. I was wondering whether the firmward itself was the same though from your other answers theres no way of knowing although very likely.

There appears to be either an error in the protocol document (most likely) or a failed command in the protocol implementation. One or two particular commands that would be most useful to API programmers do not function as documented.

I suppose my main question was would Kondo ever fix it or give us the opportunity to fix it ourselves?
thanks for that slashsplat

the 1HV uses the RCB3 not the J, as does the Manoi. I was wondering whether the firmward itself was the same though from your other answers theres no way of knowing although very likely.

There appears to be either an error in the protocol document (most likely) or a failed command in the protocol implementation. One or two particular commands that would be most useful to API programmers do not function as documented.

I suppose my main question was would Kondo ever fix it or give us the opportunity to fix it ourselves?
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Post by tempusmaster » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:15 am

Post by tempusmaster
Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:15 am

slashsplat wrote:
PaulP wrote:...Is the firmware on an RCB3 upgradeable?
Not to my ignorant knowledge. Seen NOTHING to indicate that is possible.


Probably not, but anything is possible.

PaulP wrote:...Is the firmware on Manoi and KHR-1HV the same?
There are two RCB-3 controllers, one is designated the "J" modela and does not support the "serial" mode of the Kondo servos. I don't remember what the the 1HV uses...


Both the MANOI AT01 and the KHR-1HV use the RCB3. The KHR-2HV uses the RCB3J. The first two use KRS-4024HV servos while the later doesn't. The English manual (KHR-2HV) says-

"ICS2.0 is specified to KRS-4014HV and KRS-4013HV, but it has not yet corresponded to RCB3J, you cannot set ICS on the board with RCB3J."

The 4024 doesn't appear to be 2.0, but since all the 4000 series servos have the same case/form-factor they are apparently using the RCB3 for designs that use any of the 4000 series. Quite a few of the AT01 users here have used 4013's in place of the 4024s for the pitch servos to take advantage of the increased torque.

PaulP wrote:...What is the link just below the servo 1 connection for?
That would be the "power supply" setup pins, if you mean the one immediately next to servo 1. The next three below that one are the analog inputs for the servos. I cannot find what the power pins are for...


I don't have the docs with me, but the link (pins with a jumper) you're referring to is probably the connection for the booster module. It's typically used when you use the RCB3 with a custom design or are upgrading an older robot and have to use a mix of the low and high voltage servos.

PaulP wrote:...They appear to be manufactured with the intention that some people will take them further. Am I right in thinking this?
I don't really think so. They barely post the protocol for the comm to the board, much less allow you much in the way of custom programming. What exactly might you be talking about?


The fact that they did go to the trouble of openly releasing the command protocols seems to indicate that they expected someone to do something with them. How far the RCB3 can be taken really remains to be seen.

PaulP wrote:...are Kondo and other manufacturers approachable?
Not from what I have seen. Vendors have been researching for months HOW to get me the parts to add waist movement and cannot even get an answer on what to BUY. Given that, and their apparent inability to talk directly to the manufacturers, as opposed to a Japanese distributor, it does not seem like they are AT ALL approachable. This will change as we develop a REAL market here in the US... Things are much different in Japan. And none of the vendors seem to be able to speak Japanese...


About as approachable as most companies are anywhere in the world.

The only English-speaking person in the World who seems to be able to dialogue with them is Lem, the tempusmaster... He LIVES in Japan. And he is 6'4", so he has the physical advantage :-)


:lol:

6'7" actually, and it's a real physical disadvantage on this side of the ocean. Frankly, I'm just a kind, friendly, open, lovable kind of a guy. 8)
slashsplat wrote:
PaulP wrote:...Is the firmware on an RCB3 upgradeable?
Not to my ignorant knowledge. Seen NOTHING to indicate that is possible.


Probably not, but anything is possible.

PaulP wrote:...Is the firmware on Manoi and KHR-1HV the same?
There are two RCB-3 controllers, one is designated the "J" modela and does not support the "serial" mode of the Kondo servos. I don't remember what the the 1HV uses...


Both the MANOI AT01 and the KHR-1HV use the RCB3. The KHR-2HV uses the RCB3J. The first two use KRS-4024HV servos while the later doesn't. The English manual (KHR-2HV) says-

"ICS2.0 is specified to KRS-4014HV and KRS-4013HV, but it has not yet corresponded to RCB3J, you cannot set ICS on the board with RCB3J."

The 4024 doesn't appear to be 2.0, but since all the 4000 series servos have the same case/form-factor they are apparently using the RCB3 for designs that use any of the 4000 series. Quite a few of the AT01 users here have used 4013's in place of the 4024s for the pitch servos to take advantage of the increased torque.

PaulP wrote:...What is the link just below the servo 1 connection for?
That would be the "power supply" setup pins, if you mean the one immediately next to servo 1. The next three below that one are the analog inputs for the servos. I cannot find what the power pins are for...


I don't have the docs with me, but the link (pins with a jumper) you're referring to is probably the connection for the booster module. It's typically used when you use the RCB3 with a custom design or are upgrading an older robot and have to use a mix of the low and high voltage servos.

PaulP wrote:...They appear to be manufactured with the intention that some people will take them further. Am I right in thinking this?
I don't really think so. They barely post the protocol for the comm to the board, much less allow you much in the way of custom programming. What exactly might you be talking about?


The fact that they did go to the trouble of openly releasing the command protocols seems to indicate that they expected someone to do something with them. How far the RCB3 can be taken really remains to be seen.

PaulP wrote:...are Kondo and other manufacturers approachable?
Not from what I have seen. Vendors have been researching for months HOW to get me the parts to add waist movement and cannot even get an answer on what to BUY. Given that, and their apparent inability to talk directly to the manufacturers, as opposed to a Japanese distributor, it does not seem like they are AT ALL approachable. This will change as we develop a REAL market here in the US... Things are much different in Japan. And none of the vendors seem to be able to speak Japanese...


About as approachable as most companies are anywhere in the world.

The only English-speaking person in the World who seems to be able to dialogue with them is Lem, the tempusmaster... He LIVES in Japan. And he is 6'4", so he has the physical advantage :-)


:lol:

6'7" actually, and it's a real physical disadvantage on this side of the ocean. Frankly, I'm just a kind, friendly, open, lovable kind of a guy. 8)
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Post by slashsplat » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:31 am

Post by slashsplat
Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:31 am

tempusmaster wrote:...6'7" actually...
I stand TALL corrected! :wink:
tempusmaster wrote:...6'7" actually...
I stand TALL corrected! :wink:
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Post by Dave[TR] » Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:58 pm

Post by Dave[TR]
Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:58 pm

slashsplat wrote:
PaulP wrote:...are Kondo and other manufacturers approachable?
Not from what I have seen. Vendors have been researching for months HOW to get me the parts to add waist movement and cannot even get an answer on what to BUY. Given that, and their apparent inability to talk directly to the manufacturers, as opposed to a Japanese distributor, it does not seem like they are AT ALL approachable.


I'd just like to chime in on this issue. I'm sure that the manufacturers are as friendly and approachable as anyone else. The difficulty really lies in getting in touch with the right people. I'm currently blocked by a brick wall of middlemen. It's always tough being an early adopter.

slashsplat wrote:And none of the vendors seem to be able to speak Japanese...


For the last time Ira, I don't have time to learn Japanese! :P
slashsplat wrote:
PaulP wrote:...are Kondo and other manufacturers approachable?
Not from what I have seen. Vendors have been researching for months HOW to get me the parts to add waist movement and cannot even get an answer on what to BUY. Given that, and their apparent inability to talk directly to the manufacturers, as opposed to a Japanese distributor, it does not seem like they are AT ALL approachable.


I'd just like to chime in on this issue. I'm sure that the manufacturers are as friendly and approachable as anyone else. The difficulty really lies in getting in touch with the right people. I'm currently blocked by a brick wall of middlemen. It's always tough being an early adopter.

slashsplat wrote:And none of the vendors seem to be able to speak Japanese...


For the last time Ira, I don't have time to learn Japanese! :P
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Post by slashsplat » Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:06 pm

Post by slashsplat
Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:06 pm

Dave[TR] wrote:For the last time Ira, I don't have time to learn Japanese! :P

Domo Aregato.
Dave[TR] wrote:For the last time Ira, I don't have time to learn Japanese! :P

Domo Aregato.
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Post by PaulP » Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:18 pm

Post by PaulP
Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:18 pm

Like most people, I've run into manufacturers who are unapproachable Some are just in the business to make money. Pure and simple. Doesn't matter if the product is even fit for purpose.

That seems to happen mainly with the big boys. Smaller companies sometimes appear unapproachable because they are limited on resources.

From Kondo's site, I assume they aren't a massive company.
Like most people, I've run into manufacturers who are unapproachable Some are just in the business to make money. Pure and simple. Doesn't matter if the product is even fit for purpose.

That seems to happen mainly with the big boys. Smaller companies sometimes appear unapproachable because they are limited on resources.

From Kondo's site, I assume they aren't a massive company.
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