Anyone have the Robozak?

Hitec robotics including ROBONOVA humanoid, HSR-8498HB servos, MR C-3024 Controllers and RoboBasic
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Anyone have the Robozak?

Post by serithseraki » Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:53 am

Post by serithseraki
Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:53 am

I recently acquired a Robozak mint in all of its packaged magazines from http://www.rinkya.com and after assembly I have found that there there exists no code for the individual leg rotation. I was wondering if anyone has the Robozak produced by Deagostini and has a template code for the hip rotation made up that they could post?
I recently acquired a Robozak mint in all of its packaged magazines from http://www.rinkya.com and after assembly I have found that there there exists no code for the individual leg rotation. I was wondering if anyone has the Robozak produced by Deagostini and has a template code for the hip rotation made up that they could post?
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Re: Anyone have the Robozak?

Post by limor » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:29 pm

Post by limor
Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:29 pm

can you please post some links to Robozak.
Don't recall hearing about this robot
can you please post some links to Robozak.
Don't recall hearing about this robot
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Re: Anyone have the Robozak?

Post by PaulL » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:38 am

Post by PaulL
Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:38 am

Limor,

Robozak is a RN-1, built from a kit, where parts and a magazine were sent regularly until the complete kit had been sent. It is pretty much the same as a RN-1 except that it has hip rotation, not sure what else is different (added - it had grippers too).

I've seen a picture of the hip rotation joint exactly one time, I believe here in the RS forums. I have NEVER seen the hip rotation joint in action, not anywhere.

Serith,

I have to say, I've never seen info about motion using those hip joints. Haven't seen many pics of Robozak, I think you've got a great find. As for movement, I think you'll have to experiment.

Take Care,
Paul
Limor,

Robozak is a RN-1, built from a kit, where parts and a magazine were sent regularly until the complete kit had been sent. It is pretty much the same as a RN-1 except that it has hip rotation, not sure what else is different (added - it had grippers too).

I've seen a picture of the hip rotation joint exactly one time, I believe here in the RS forums. I have NEVER seen the hip rotation joint in action, not anywhere.

Serith,

I have to say, I've never seen info about motion using those hip joints. Haven't seen many pics of Robozak, I think you've got a great find. As for movement, I think you'll have to experiment.

Take Care,
Paul
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Re: Anyone have the Robozak?

Post by serithseraki » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:57 am

Post by serithseraki
Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:57 am

The Robozak or RZ-1 is merely a rehash of the RN-1 that was distributed through the Italian model magazine Deagostini and sold exclusively in Japan as weekly installments which included a few of the robot's parts along with a magazine that provided assembly instructions and articles pertaining to robotics and mecha http://www.shifteast.com/weekly-robozak-rz-1-build-your-own-programmable-robot-with-a-magazine/. The robot also came with several add-ons that improved on the original RN-1, including the hitec grippers, a variety of sensors, and most importantly, the individual leg rotation that many RN-1 owners hoped to havehttp://homepage1.nifty.com/ykizaki/robot-world.html. I recently obtained the full set and after going through the included CDs I have discovered that no motion files exist for the included individual leg rotation add-on the set provides, and the motion files are written in roboscript format and the servo positions for the motions are not symmetrical. For example, the standard pose has the left side in the proper position but the right side is complete nonsense. I thought I had the robot wired wrong at first but none of the servo positions matched from one side to the other when I checked all the code that had the robot in a fixed symmetrical stance, and this issue seems to be throughout the entire code. I thought that the servo direction might be different for the Robozak, but this doesn't seem to be the case. So does anyone on the site have this robonova variant and has existing code that actually works? I am on my work computer at the moment, but I will try to post some of the code later on so you can see what I mean.
The Robozak or RZ-1 is merely a rehash of the RN-1 that was distributed through the Italian model magazine Deagostini and sold exclusively in Japan as weekly installments which included a few of the robot's parts along with a magazine that provided assembly instructions and articles pertaining to robotics and mecha http://www.shifteast.com/weekly-robozak-rz-1-build-your-own-programmable-robot-with-a-magazine/. The robot also came with several add-ons that improved on the original RN-1, including the hitec grippers, a variety of sensors, and most importantly, the individual leg rotation that many RN-1 owners hoped to havehttp://homepage1.nifty.com/ykizaki/robot-world.html. I recently obtained the full set and after going through the included CDs I have discovered that no motion files exist for the included individual leg rotation add-on the set provides, and the motion files are written in roboscript format and the servo positions for the motions are not symmetrical. For example, the standard pose has the left side in the proper position but the right side is complete nonsense. I thought I had the robot wired wrong at first but none of the servo positions matched from one side to the other when I checked all the code that had the robot in a fixed symmetrical stance, and this issue seems to be throughout the entire code. I thought that the servo direction might be different for the Robozak, but this doesn't seem to be the case. So does anyone on the site have this robonova variant and has existing code that actually works? I am on my work computer at the moment, but I will try to post some of the code later on so you can see what I mean.
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Re: Anyone have the Robozak?

Post by PaulL » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:01 pm

Post by PaulL
Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:01 pm

There's a rotation option in the Hitec robotic servos, perhaps they weren't set?? That would make all of the angles backwards left to right... (re-read your post, not sure what, then??)

Looking forward to seeing what they have in code...
There's a rotation option in the Hitec robotic servos, perhaps they weren't set?? That would make all of the angles backwards left to right... (re-read your post, not sure what, then??)

Looking forward to seeing what they have in code...
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Re: Anyone have the Robozak?

Post by serithseraki » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:08 pm

Post by serithseraki
Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:08 pm

I initially thought that might be the case, but regardless, there is no difference as the degrees for the right side are way off. I will post some of the code in a few hours.
I initially thought that might be the case, but regardless, there is no difference as the degrees for the right side are way off. I will post some of the code in a few hours.
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Re: Anyone have the Robozak?

Post by serithseraki » Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:47 pm

Post by serithseraki
Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:47 pm

Here is a sample of the standard pose that is provided with the motion files.

[url]standard_pose:

MOVE G24,100,76,145,93,100,100,100,30,80,100,100,100,100,30,80,100,100,100,100,76,145,93,100,100

RETURN[/url]

This code provided on the second disc of motion files should be a simple wave of the right hand with the rest of the body in a fixed pose. As you can see, it is nothing of the sort.

[url]MOVE G24,100,124,55,93,100,100,100,30,80,100,100,100,100,170,120,100,100,100,100,76,145,107,100,100



SPEED 2

MOVE G24,85,129,48,91,88,100,100,40,80,100,100,100,100,160,120,100,100,100,88,76,145,107,92,100



SPEED 1

MOVE G24,76,128,40,82,72,130,100,35,90,100,100,100,100,165,110,100,100,100,90,92,124,103,93,130



MOVE G24,93,124,55,94,91,100,100,35,90,100,100,100,100,165,110,100,100,100,107,76,145,106,109,100



MOVE G24,110,108,76,97,107,130,100,35,90,100,100,100,100,165,110,100,100,100,124,72,160,118,128,130



SPEED 1

MOVE G24,113,122,55,93,107,140,100,40,80,100,100,100,110,160,120,100,100,100,114,83,135,103,114,140



MOVE G24,112,124,55,93,108,140,100,40,80,100,100,100,100,160,120,100,100,100,115,71,152,109,112,140



'================================================

MOVE G24,100,124,55,93,100,100,100,30,80,100,100,100,100,170,120,100,100,100,100,76,145,107,100,100[/url]
Here is a sample of the standard pose that is provided with the motion files.

[url]standard_pose:

MOVE G24,100,76,145,93,100,100,100,30,80,100,100,100,100,30,80,100,100,100,100,76,145,93,100,100

RETURN[/url]

This code provided on the second disc of motion files should be a simple wave of the right hand with the rest of the body in a fixed pose. As you can see, it is nothing of the sort.

[url]MOVE G24,100,124,55,93,100,100,100,30,80,100,100,100,100,170,120,100,100,100,100,76,145,107,100,100



SPEED 2

MOVE G24,85,129,48,91,88,100,100,40,80,100,100,100,100,160,120,100,100,100,88,76,145,107,92,100



SPEED 1

MOVE G24,76,128,40,82,72,130,100,35,90,100,100,100,100,165,110,100,100,100,90,92,124,103,93,130



MOVE G24,93,124,55,94,91,100,100,35,90,100,100,100,100,165,110,100,100,100,107,76,145,106,109,100



MOVE G24,110,108,76,97,107,130,100,35,90,100,100,100,100,165,110,100,100,100,124,72,160,118,128,130



SPEED 1

MOVE G24,113,122,55,93,107,140,100,40,80,100,100,100,110,160,120,100,100,100,114,83,135,103,114,140



MOVE G24,112,124,55,93,108,140,100,40,80,100,100,100,100,160,120,100,100,100,115,71,152,109,112,140



'================================================

MOVE G24,100,124,55,93,100,100,100,30,80,100,100,100,100,170,120,100,100,100,100,76,145,107,100,100[/url]
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Re: Anyone have the Robozak?

Post by PaulL » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:29 am

Post by PaulL
Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:29 am

I think I have an answer - I do believe the servo rotation is not reversed on the left side as it is on the RN-1, with servo hub mounting offsetting values by 45 degrees in some cases.

Compared to the stock standard pose, the only differences are on the left (aside from additional servos), and only apply to servos not at middle position of throw where middle is same for either rotation direction.

Code: Select all
Srv  0: RN A18: Right Leg, Ankle Left / Right =100 Robozak = 100 OK
Srv  1: RN A19: Right Leg, Ankle Fwd / Back   = 76 Robozak =  76 OK
Srv  2: RN A20: Right Leg, Knee               =145 Robozak = 145 OK
Srv  3: RN A21: Right Leg, Hip Fwd / Back     = 93 Robozak =  93 OK
Srv  4: RN A22: Right Leg, Hip Left / Right   =100 Robozak = 100 OK
Srv  5: RN  D0: Left Leg, Ankle Left / Right  =100 Robozak = 100 OK
Srv  6: RN  D1: Left Leg, Ankle Fwd / Back    = 76 Robozak =  30 *46 Difference
Srv  7: RN  D2: Left Leg, Knee                =145 Robozak =  80 *65 Difference
Srv  8: RN  D3: Left Leg, Hip Fwd / Back      = 93 Robozak = 100 *7 Difference
Srv  9: RN  D4: Left Leg, Hip Left / Right    =100 Robozak = 100 OK
Srv 10: RN B12: Right Arm, Shoulder Rotate    =100 Robozak = 100 OK
Srv 11: RN B13: Right Arm, Shoulder Swing     = 30 Robozak =  30 OK
Srv 12: RN B14: Right Arm, Elbow              = 80 Robozak =  80 OK
Srv 13: RN  C6: Left Arm, Shoulder Rotate     =100 Robozak = 100 OK
Srv 14: RN  C7: Left Arm, Shoulder Swing      = 30 Robozak =  76 *46 Difference
Srv 15: RN  C8: Left Arm, Elbow               = 80 Robozak = 145 *65 Difference


You can see that the different positions on the left are only where the angle is not "100" (90 of 0 to 180).

As these positions aren't mirrored, one would expect them to be either side of 90 (in MRC-3024, 100 = 90, using an offset of 10 for all servos), but that isn't the case...

46 makes sense, with 8 positions on the hub, each being 45 degrees from each other, the 1 being a rounding error. The 7 difference looks like the servo plugs are switched, as the other 93 on Robozak (3rd from right on your standard pose on Robozak) is on a servo the RN-1 doesn't use, and isn't mirrored left to right on Robozak, which makes me think something is plugged in differently (and the value probably shouldn't match based on what is there thus far - error in Robozak instructions?). The fun one is the 65 difference - I can't quite explain that one, but I still think it's attributable to rotation and hub mounting.

Considering how these were likely kitted, the servos probably showed up in one box (not a left / right box) from Hitec, all with the same rotation, and likely shipped that way.

Personally, I'd check all plugs and make sure everything is where it should be relative to the RN-1. I'd go through every servo and program each's rotation (if I recall, the MRC-3024 can be used to program them, I'd have to dig and / or experiment to give more info) as it is on the RN-1 (reversed on bot's left side, normal on right). I'd do the same for the additional servos. Then, I'd go through every position on the bot and check servo hub mounting position relative to the RN-1 instructions...

Let me know what you find, and please post some video and pics!! :)

Paul
I think I have an answer - I do believe the servo rotation is not reversed on the left side as it is on the RN-1, with servo hub mounting offsetting values by 45 degrees in some cases.

Compared to the stock standard pose, the only differences are on the left (aside from additional servos), and only apply to servos not at middle position of throw where middle is same for either rotation direction.

Code: Select all
Srv  0: RN A18: Right Leg, Ankle Left / Right =100 Robozak = 100 OK
Srv  1: RN A19: Right Leg, Ankle Fwd / Back   = 76 Robozak =  76 OK
Srv  2: RN A20: Right Leg, Knee               =145 Robozak = 145 OK
Srv  3: RN A21: Right Leg, Hip Fwd / Back     = 93 Robozak =  93 OK
Srv  4: RN A22: Right Leg, Hip Left / Right   =100 Robozak = 100 OK
Srv  5: RN  D0: Left Leg, Ankle Left / Right  =100 Robozak = 100 OK
Srv  6: RN  D1: Left Leg, Ankle Fwd / Back    = 76 Robozak =  30 *46 Difference
Srv  7: RN  D2: Left Leg, Knee                =145 Robozak =  80 *65 Difference
Srv  8: RN  D3: Left Leg, Hip Fwd / Back      = 93 Robozak = 100 *7 Difference
Srv  9: RN  D4: Left Leg, Hip Left / Right    =100 Robozak = 100 OK
Srv 10: RN B12: Right Arm, Shoulder Rotate    =100 Robozak = 100 OK
Srv 11: RN B13: Right Arm, Shoulder Swing     = 30 Robozak =  30 OK
Srv 12: RN B14: Right Arm, Elbow              = 80 Robozak =  80 OK
Srv 13: RN  C6: Left Arm, Shoulder Rotate     =100 Robozak = 100 OK
Srv 14: RN  C7: Left Arm, Shoulder Swing      = 30 Robozak =  76 *46 Difference
Srv 15: RN  C8: Left Arm, Elbow               = 80 Robozak = 145 *65 Difference


You can see that the different positions on the left are only where the angle is not "100" (90 of 0 to 180).

As these positions aren't mirrored, one would expect them to be either side of 90 (in MRC-3024, 100 = 90, using an offset of 10 for all servos), but that isn't the case...

46 makes sense, with 8 positions on the hub, each being 45 degrees from each other, the 1 being a rounding error. The 7 difference looks like the servo plugs are switched, as the other 93 on Robozak (3rd from right on your standard pose on Robozak) is on a servo the RN-1 doesn't use, and isn't mirrored left to right on Robozak, which makes me think something is plugged in differently (and the value probably shouldn't match based on what is there thus far - error in Robozak instructions?). The fun one is the 65 difference - I can't quite explain that one, but I still think it's attributable to rotation and hub mounting.

Considering how these were likely kitted, the servos probably showed up in one box (not a left / right box) from Hitec, all with the same rotation, and likely shipped that way.

Personally, I'd check all plugs and make sure everything is where it should be relative to the RN-1. I'd go through every servo and program each's rotation (if I recall, the MRC-3024 can be used to program them, I'd have to dig and / or experiment to give more info) as it is on the RN-1 (reversed on bot's left side, normal on right). I'd do the same for the additional servos. Then, I'd go through every position on the bot and check servo hub mounting position relative to the RN-1 instructions...

Let me know what you find, and please post some video and pics!! :)

Paul
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