Gyro in Robonova-1 ?

Hitec robotics including ROBONOVA humanoid, HSR-8498HB servos, MR C-3024 Controllers and RoboBasic
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Post by H3dude » Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:39 am

Post by H3dude
Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:39 am

CaptKill4Fun wrote:
bauermech wrote:In the manual (page 93) it shows how two different brands need a different "module number". In their exmple a "1" is placed in front of the channel number for the KRG-1 gyro. Maybe Futuba requires a different number as well? The GWS works quite well... I haven't tried the KRG or Futuba models, so this is simply a guess.

You shouldn't need to adjust the zero settings at all. Once the gyro's are on, your bot probably won't be perfectly perpendicular to the floor from the get-go. You will want to adjust the "setup" and gain pots to get him exactly upright.

Hope this helps some?




8) Hi,

As I stated:

"However, when I got the SetZero ... READ ... Correct the two ankle servos to ^121 so the bot is standing upright correctly ... WRITE ... then ReSet the bot ... it goes back to the downhill skier position again ??? "


OTOH, I turned one of the GWS PG-03 Gyros around 180° and then was able to get the bot to stay standing upright with a bunch of servo adjustments in the SetZero program ...

Still, I'm having other problems ... the bot falls back when turned ON ... once fully stiff, I can stand it up and it's straight as an arrow ... but when I try sittting or other routines the bot falls over during the "return" part of the routine ... basically, it seems the routines are going from some other "zero" point than what is stored in the bot ???

On top of that, I can do 2-3 REMOCON routines then the bot stops listening to the IR Remote ???

...
With the two GWS PG-03 Gyro's unplugged I have full normal control of the bot w/the IR remote ...

Why would the bot not work w/the remote when the gyro's are attached ???

I have not changed any of the working routines ... just added the GWS PG-03 Gyro code to the program ...

Here is my current BASIC program:

http://www.brainless.org/MultiMedia/Rob ... 2006.06.23).bas





Try checking your wiring- it might be that you've got the connections crossed too. Have a look at this photo and do what I've got in there and you should be ok, no more downhill skiiing problem :)
http://www.theoddrobot.com/images/gyro_gws_02.jpg

I've outlined everything I did on this, with all the mistakes that you can possibly make (i even had a dead gyro ...and one that had a head lock) on my blog http://www.theoddrobot.com/2006/06/project-how-to-add-gyros-to-your.html

Hope this helps, gyros are amazing devices once you've got them working right.
CaptKill4Fun wrote:
bauermech wrote:In the manual (page 93) it shows how two different brands need a different "module number". In their exmple a "1" is placed in front of the channel number for the KRG-1 gyro. Maybe Futuba requires a different number as well? The GWS works quite well... I haven't tried the KRG or Futuba models, so this is simply a guess.

You shouldn't need to adjust the zero settings at all. Once the gyro's are on, your bot probably won't be perfectly perpendicular to the floor from the get-go. You will want to adjust the "setup" and gain pots to get him exactly upright.

Hope this helps some?




8) Hi,

As I stated:

"However, when I got the SetZero ... READ ... Correct the two ankle servos to ^121 so the bot is standing upright correctly ... WRITE ... then ReSet the bot ... it goes back to the downhill skier position again ??? "


OTOH, I turned one of the GWS PG-03 Gyros around 180° and then was able to get the bot to stay standing upright with a bunch of servo adjustments in the SetZero program ...

Still, I'm having other problems ... the bot falls back when turned ON ... once fully stiff, I can stand it up and it's straight as an arrow ... but when I try sittting or other routines the bot falls over during the "return" part of the routine ... basically, it seems the routines are going from some other "zero" point than what is stored in the bot ???

On top of that, I can do 2-3 REMOCON routines then the bot stops listening to the IR Remote ???

...
With the two GWS PG-03 Gyro's unplugged I have full normal control of the bot w/the IR remote ...

Why would the bot not work w/the remote when the gyro's are attached ???

I have not changed any of the working routines ... just added the GWS PG-03 Gyro code to the program ...

Here is my current BASIC program:

http://www.brainless.org/MultiMedia/Rob ... 2006.06.23).bas





Try checking your wiring- it might be that you've got the connections crossed too. Have a look at this photo and do what I've got in there and you should be ok, no more downhill skiiing problem :)
http://www.theoddrobot.com/images/gyro_gws_02.jpg

I've outlined everything I did on this, with all the mistakes that you can possibly make (i even had a dead gyro ...and one that had a head lock) on my blog http://www.theoddrobot.com/2006/06/project-how-to-add-gyros-to-your.html

Hope this helps, gyros are amazing devices once you've got them working right.
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Post by CaptKill4Fun » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:39 pm

Post by CaptKill4Fun
Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:39 pm

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Last edited by CaptKill4Fun on Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by CaptKill4Fun » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:43 pm

Post by CaptKill4Fun
Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:43 pm

...
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Last edited by CaptKill4Fun on Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by rep001 » Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:44 pm

Post by rep001
Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:44 pm

Hi
Chaps
I have used Matts code as well and found that with one or both gyros on there is no servo interaction.All the gyro lights show an input and reaction but no RB movement.I will keep on it but just wondered if any one else has tried it yet.
Hi
Chaps
I have used Matts code as well and found that with one or both gyros on there is no servo interaction.All the gyro lights show an input and reaction but no RB movement.I will keep on it but just wondered if any one else has tried it yet.
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Post by bauermech » Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:27 pm

Post by bauermech
Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:27 pm

Hmmmm. I don't know what would be wrong... H3dude goes into great detail on his site.

Copy this under "MAIN:"
Code: Select all
  GOSUB gyro_on


...and copy this at the bottom of the page:
Code: Select all
gyro_on:
GYROSET G6A, 2, 1, 1, 0, 2, 0
GYROSET G6D, 2, 1, 1, 0, 2, 0
GYROSET G6B, 1, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0
GYROSET G6C, 1, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0

GYRODIR G6A, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0
GYRODIR G6D, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0
GYRODIR G6B, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0
GYRODIR G6C, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0

GYROSENSE G6A, 200, 200, 200, 0, 200, 0
GYROSENSE G6D, 200, 200, 200, 0, 200, 0
GYROSENSE G6B, 150, 150, 0, 0, 0, 0
GYROSENSE G6C, 150, 150, 0, 0, 0, 0


NOTE: The above only works if you have two gyros installed. For one gyro (ie. forward/backward sway) copy this at the bottom instead...
Code: Select all
gyro_on:
GYROSET G6A, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0
GYROSET G6D, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0
GYROSET G6B, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
GYROSET G6C, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0

GYRODIR G6A, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0
GYRODIR G6D, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0
GYRODIR G6B, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
GYRODIR G6C, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0

GYROSENSE G6A, 0, 200, 200, 0, 0, 0
GYROSENSE G6D, 0, 200, 200, 0, 0, 0
GYROSENSE G6B, 150, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
GYROSENSE G6C, 150, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
RETURN


If neither work, then there's something else wrong... not the code.
Hmmmm. I don't know what would be wrong... H3dude goes into great detail on his site.

Copy this under "MAIN:"
Code: Select all
  GOSUB gyro_on


...and copy this at the bottom of the page:
Code: Select all
gyro_on:
GYROSET G6A, 2, 1, 1, 0, 2, 0
GYROSET G6D, 2, 1, 1, 0, 2, 0
GYROSET G6B, 1, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0
GYROSET G6C, 1, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0

GYRODIR G6A, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0
GYRODIR G6D, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0
GYRODIR G6B, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0
GYRODIR G6C, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0

GYROSENSE G6A, 200, 200, 200, 0, 200, 0
GYROSENSE G6D, 200, 200, 200, 0, 200, 0
GYROSENSE G6B, 150, 150, 0, 0, 0, 0
GYROSENSE G6C, 150, 150, 0, 0, 0, 0


NOTE: The above only works if you have two gyros installed. For one gyro (ie. forward/backward sway) copy this at the bottom instead...
Code: Select all
gyro_on:
GYROSET G6A, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0
GYROSET G6D, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0
GYROSET G6B, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
GYROSET G6C, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0

GYRODIR G6A, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0
GYRODIR G6D, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0
GYRODIR G6B, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
GYRODIR G6C, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0

GYROSENSE G6A, 0, 200, 200, 0, 0, 0
GYROSENSE G6D, 0, 200, 200, 0, 0, 0
GYROSENSE G6B, 150, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
GYROSENSE G6C, 150, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
RETURN


If neither work, then there's something else wrong... not the code.
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Post by rep001 » Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:17 am

Post by rep001
Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:17 am

Matt
thanks for the advise.unfortunatly rb stands there with no gyro reaction at all ??
i wanted to have this licked by the end of the weekend (once back to work no spare time at all) ,so i guess i will keep trying things which is what its all about anyway guys..........
Matt
thanks for the advise.unfortunatly rb stands there with no gyro reaction at all ??
i wanted to have this licked by the end of the weekend (once back to work no spare time at all) ,so i guess i will keep trying things which is what its all about anyway guys..........
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Post by rep001 » Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:34 pm

Post by rep001
Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:34 pm

YEEPEE !
Got it sorted.i have the kung-fu code running without him falling and i have the gyros working perfect.RB does seem alot more stable forward/back than right/left but now i have something to work with.a small step for must i guess but very exciting for me.Thanks go out to Matt and Pev for help and info.....
YEEPEE !
Got it sorted.i have the kung-fu code running without him falling and i have the gyros working perfect.RB does seem alot more stable forward/back than right/left but now i have something to work with.a small step for must i guess but very exciting for me.Thanks go out to Matt and Pev for help and info.....
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Post by hivemind » Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:52 pm

Post by hivemind
Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:52 pm

Congrats on your success, I also have the issue that my robot is less stable from side to side than front to bad, which is kind of odd given the fact that he should have more to balance on in that axis (two feet in a row vs one front to back). I was thinking perhaps having him bend a knee if he is pushed in a direction so that he does tip onto the lip of his foot? Is there way to declare two gyros for a single servo or, what i would presume, does the second decleration of one replace the first?

Maybe if one were to map the accelerometer during a time that the robot could be tipping from side to side they could effectively switch between several gyro setons. So say that your 3-axis accelerometer detects a change in the y direction (side to side), this could potentially run a code that said the side to side gyro now has control over bend in the legs instead of the other gyro and now instead of tipping on a foot the robot would just bend there, and once he was back to a neutral position the accelerometer could trigger the neutral gyro position and reinitialize the front/back gyro to have the slight bend in the legs.

Probably a bit wordy, and i havent thought it through all the way, but do you think that would work? Maybe once i have my robot back together again I'll try it. hmm, i really wish we had interupts :roll:

but congrats on having them work, i know when i figured out my codea while back it definitely put a smile on my face :)
Congrats on your success, I also have the issue that my robot is less stable from side to side than front to bad, which is kind of odd given the fact that he should have more to balance on in that axis (two feet in a row vs one front to back). I was thinking perhaps having him bend a knee if he is pushed in a direction so that he does tip onto the lip of his foot? Is there way to declare two gyros for a single servo or, what i would presume, does the second decleration of one replace the first?

Maybe if one were to map the accelerometer during a time that the robot could be tipping from side to side they could effectively switch between several gyro setons. So say that your 3-axis accelerometer detects a change in the y direction (side to side), this could potentially run a code that said the side to side gyro now has control over bend in the legs instead of the other gyro and now instead of tipping on a foot the robot would just bend there, and once he was back to a neutral position the accelerometer could trigger the neutral gyro position and reinitialize the front/back gyro to have the slight bend in the legs.

Probably a bit wordy, and i havent thought it through all the way, but do you think that would work? Maybe once i have my robot back together again I'll try it. hmm, i really wish we had interupts :roll:

but congrats on having them work, i know when i figured out my codea while back it definitely put a smile on my face :)
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Post by rep001 » Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:14 pm

Post by rep001
Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:14 pm

trying an acc may work but i think simply that RB does not have enough free movement in the hips,after all only 2 servos and one arm can effectively offer any balance .but still its all good till i articulate the hip area with more servos ect.not for a time yet though.....
trying an acc may work but i think simply that RB does not have enough free movement in the hips,after all only 2 servos and one arm can effectively offer any balance .but still its all good till i articulate the hip area with more servos ect.not for a time yet though.....
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Post by hivemind » Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:45 pm

Post by hivemind
Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:45 pm

I was just thinking that one could bend one of the knees so that instead of the RN tiping over its cg would lower, just slightly, and then come back to center.

As for the hips, i dont think you really need those unless you are going for a much larger degree of freedom, but again, i could e wrong. I have added the two rotational dof and it raises the robot up, but still he will tip at the foot, granted if he takes the time to rotate outwards he is muh more stable, but that takes time, and most likely that would mean the gain is so high that he would be jittery. Once my robot is back together, or if i can test it on another, ill let you know how bending at the knee (using all three servos per knee) works out for me.

:)
I was just thinking that one could bend one of the knees so that instead of the RN tiping over its cg would lower, just slightly, and then come back to center.

As for the hips, i dont think you really need those unless you are going for a much larger degree of freedom, but again, i could e wrong. I have added the two rotational dof and it raises the robot up, but still he will tip at the foot, granted if he takes the time to rotate outwards he is muh more stable, but that takes time, and most likely that would mean the gain is so high that he would be jittery. Once my robot is back together, or if i can test it on another, ill let you know how bending at the knee (using all three servos per knee) works out for me.

:)
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Gyro On/Off

Post by Viking » Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:37 am

Post by Viking
Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:37 am

Hi All 8)

First I have installed the gyros inside the RN like this

Image

as you can see (I hope) I have removed the cover of one Gyro to enable it to fit inside the chest of the RN.
I have also added a thin plywood plate to support/glue the gyro in place on.

The code below is placed just before MAIN

GYROSET G6A, 2, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0
GYROSET G6D, 2, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0

GYRODIR G6A, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0
GYRODIR G6D, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0
GYROSENSE G6A, 150, 100, 0, 100, 0, 0
GYROSENSE G6D, 150, 100, 0, 100, 0, 0

The following SUBS will turn the gyro on/Off

GyroOff:

GYROSENSE G6A, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
GYROSENSE G6D, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
RETURN

GyroOn:

GYROSENSE G6A, 150, 100, 0, 100, 0, 0
GYROSENSE G6D, 150, 100, 0, 100, 0, 0

RETURN


The above codes is working fine but as I see it the RN will never be able to fully utilize the use of Gyros! It seems that he is too wobbly in his joins and perhaps the controller board is not fully developed to handle gyros?

I think it will be necessary to turn the gyro off before each move and then turn it back on after the move?

Any one has other thoughts about this?
Hi All 8)

First I have installed the gyros inside the RN like this

Image

as you can see (I hope) I have removed the cover of one Gyro to enable it to fit inside the chest of the RN.
I have also added a thin plywood plate to support/glue the gyro in place on.

The code below is placed just before MAIN

GYROSET G6A, 2, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0
GYROSET G6D, 2, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0

GYRODIR G6A, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0
GYRODIR G6D, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0
GYROSENSE G6A, 150, 100, 0, 100, 0, 0
GYROSENSE G6D, 150, 100, 0, 100, 0, 0

The following SUBS will turn the gyro on/Off

GyroOff:

GYROSENSE G6A, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
GYROSENSE G6D, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
RETURN

GyroOn:

GYROSENSE G6A, 150, 100, 0, 100, 0, 0
GYROSENSE G6D, 150, 100, 0, 100, 0, 0

RETURN


The above codes is working fine but as I see it the RN will never be able to fully utilize the use of Gyros! It seems that he is too wobbly in his joins and perhaps the controller board is not fully developed to handle gyros?

I think it will be necessary to turn the gyro off before each move and then turn it back on after the move?

Any one has other thoughts about this?
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Re: Gyro On/Off

Post by Pev » Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:38 am

Post by Pev
Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:38 am

Viking wrote:
I think it will be necessary to turn the gyro off before each move and then turn it back on after the move?

Any one has other thoughts about this?


Got to agree with you on this one. I have certainly found you can't leave them on all the time.

Pev
Viking wrote:
I think it will be necessary to turn the gyro off before each move and then turn it back on after the move?

Any one has other thoughts about this?


Got to agree with you on this one. I have certainly found you can't leave them on all the time.

Pev
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Post by XenoEvil » Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:15 am

Post by XenoEvil
Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:15 am

I have the forward backward gyro working a treat. The robot does have a tick (you can here the motors twitch but no visible movement.) and it does get the tremors as he settles but it does settle within sub seconds.
I find it much better if the zero position is slightly weight forward or backward as it settle much better and does not try to activly maintain an absolout balance point. This is why our legs have knee caps so we can lock our legs, otherwise we would need to rock backward and forwards.

My opinion however. The servo sensitivity cannot be adjusted enough. I estimate that the arms need some 30 degrees of movement in response to a poke. You cannot get that.

You need at least PI or PID (proportional, integral, differential) control to stop the jitters all together.

There is a difference between maintaining balance and handing disturbance (the chest poke) A combo of accelerometer to manage servo gain is what the pro's use with a stateful response to disturbance. eg If I were to push you, you would only resist with your body weight to a point and then you would step back. If you were hit with a shock force, you would propably lunge and drop you center of gravity. All these thing we cannot do with the robobasic.

There seems to be a difference of opinion on which leg servos and which direction to use. Some people use only 2 DOF and some use 3 DOF. Some reverse the direction of the knee servo too.

Steps off soapbox. Thanks for listening.
I have the forward backward gyro working a treat. The robot does have a tick (you can here the motors twitch but no visible movement.) and it does get the tremors as he settles but it does settle within sub seconds.
I find it much better if the zero position is slightly weight forward or backward as it settle much better and does not try to activly maintain an absolout balance point. This is why our legs have knee caps so we can lock our legs, otherwise we would need to rock backward and forwards.

My opinion however. The servo sensitivity cannot be adjusted enough. I estimate that the arms need some 30 degrees of movement in response to a poke. You cannot get that.

You need at least PI or PID (proportional, integral, differential) control to stop the jitters all together.

There is a difference between maintaining balance and handing disturbance (the chest poke) A combo of accelerometer to manage servo gain is what the pro's use with a stateful response to disturbance. eg If I were to push you, you would only resist with your body weight to a point and then you would step back. If you were hit with a shock force, you would propably lunge and drop you center of gravity. All these thing we cannot do with the robobasic.

There seems to be a difference of opinion on which leg servos and which direction to use. Some people use only 2 DOF and some use 3 DOF. Some reverse the direction of the knee servo too.

Steps off soapbox. Thanks for listening.
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Post by rep001 » Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:32 pm

Post by rep001
Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:32 pm

I have managed to fit BOTH gyros into the chest area.They are actually fixed to the shoulder servos with strong double sided tape.The wiring is then routed over his right shoulder under the armour again so no sign of them.Be careful as i had some sharp edges under there but a dremel later and all is smooth.Just another small step for me but thought i would share it.Cheers.. :wink:
OOops ! Sorry a double post. The links for pic is below.Maybe admin can delete this one for me. MATT !!!!
I have managed to fit BOTH gyros into the chest area.They are actually fixed to the shoulder servos with strong double sided tape.The wiring is then routed over his right shoulder under the armour again so no sign of them.Be careful as i had some sharp edges under there but a dremel later and all is smooth.Just another small step for me but thought i would share it.Cheers.. :wink:
OOops ! Sorry a double post. The links for pic is below.Maybe admin can delete this one for me. MATT !!!!
Last edited by rep001 on Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by rep001 » Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:32 pm

Post by rep001
Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:32 pm

I have managed to fit BOTH gyros into the chest area.They are actually fixed to the shoulder servos with strong double sided tape.The wiring is then routed over his right shoulder under the armour again so no sign of them.Be careful as i had some sharp edges under there but a dremel later and all is smooth.Just another small step for me but thought i would share it.Cheers.. :wink:
Image
I have managed to fit BOTH gyros into the chest area.They are actually fixed to the shoulder servos with strong double sided tape.The wiring is then routed over his right shoulder under the armour again so no sign of them.Be careful as i had some sharp edges under there but a dremel later and all is smooth.Just another small step for me but thought i would share it.Cheers.. :wink:
Image
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