RCB3 Protocol

Takahashi's design (robo-garage.com), Kondo servos and controller, and kit production by RC company Kyosho brought to life PF01.
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RCB3 Protocol

Post by alexj212 » Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:40 am

Post by alexj212
Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:40 am

I was wondering if anyone has any docs on the RCB3 protocol for the Manoi. I dont have it yet, but I am doing my homework now. I found a protocol that has been translated for RCB1 and was wondering if it is similiar to that of the RCB3.

Thanks
I was wondering if anyone has any docs on the RCB3 protocol for the Manoi. I dont have it yet, but I am doing my homework now. I found a protocol that has been translated for RCB1 and was wondering if it is similiar to that of the RCB3.

Thanks
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Re: RCB3 Protocol

Post by tempusmaster » Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:11 am

Post by tempusmaster
Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:11 am

alexj212 wrote:I was wondering if anyone has any docs on the RCB3 protocol for the Manoi. I dont have it yet, but I am doing my homework now. I found a protocol that has been translated for RCB1 and was wondering if it is similiar to that of the RCB3.

Thanks

In terms of communication protocols - i.e. how the data gets transferred from the computer or control unit to the RCB3, they are the same.

In terms of data structure/protocol, the RCB3 is very different.

The RCB3 data has been documented in Japanese and is available on the Kondo website. As far as I am aware, no one has translated it yet.

That being said, the files created by H2H3 are text files and it seems to be very easy to follow the file format and figure out what's going on.
alexj212 wrote:I was wondering if anyone has any docs on the RCB3 protocol for the Manoi. I dont have it yet, but I am doing my homework now. I found a protocol that has been translated for RCB1 and was wondering if it is similiar to that of the RCB3.

Thanks

In terms of communication protocols - i.e. how the data gets transferred from the computer or control unit to the RCB3, they are the same.

In terms of data structure/protocol, the RCB3 is very different.

The RCB3 data has been documented in Japanese and is available on the Kondo website. As far as I am aware, no one has translated it yet.

That being said, the files created by H2H3 are text files and it seems to be very easy to follow the file format and figure out what's going on.
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Post by slashsplat » Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:45 pm

Post by slashsplat
Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:45 pm

And I would be VERY interested to know what you are trying to do! I also have an interest in driving the RCB from something other than the stupid HTH3, which I assume is your goal...
And I would be VERY interested to know what you are trying to do! I also have an interest in driving the RCB from something other than the stupid HTH3, which I assume is your goal...
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Post by alexj212 » Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:50 pm

Post by alexj212
Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:50 pm

My first goal would be to develop a c# (dot net) communication library to exercise control functionality. Once I have a library I am going to look to see about interfacing with existing tools or develop controller app.
My first goal would be to develop a c# (dot net) communication library to exercise control functionality. Once I have a library I am going to look to see about interfacing with existing tools or develop controller app.
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Post by slashsplat » Sat Jan 13, 2007 3:00 pm

Post by slashsplat
Sat Jan 13, 2007 3:00 pm

I am working on an input device that records human motion and will provide it to a program to create motions for the bot. While this is VERY ambitious for me, it seems like the BEST way to get past the STINKING HTH3 software that is idiotic.

I have constructed most of the frame and it will have at least 20 DOF - no head... I am using 8 cheap tripods for their parts. I have parts on the way to make the sensors for the motion detection. I am debating whether to use joint angle sensing or just a two axis inclinometer and accelerometer at the end of the limbs, and calculate the motion required to get the limb end-point where it is. Being weak on the math, I am thinking joint angle sensors using linear pots.

More to come once I get all the segments constructed. I may need some suggestions on the angle sensor mechanics.
I am working on an input device that records human motion and will provide it to a program to create motions for the bot. While this is VERY ambitious for me, it seems like the BEST way to get past the STINKING HTH3 software that is idiotic.

I have constructed most of the frame and it will have at least 20 DOF - no head... I am using 8 cheap tripods for their parts. I have parts on the way to make the sensors for the motion detection. I am debating whether to use joint angle sensing or just a two axis inclinometer and accelerometer at the end of the limbs, and calculate the motion required to get the limb end-point where it is. Being weak on the math, I am thinking joint angle sensors using linear pots.

More to come once I get all the segments constructed. I may need some suggestions on the angle sensor mechanics.
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Post by shsan » Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:57 pm

Post by shsan
Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:57 pm

You probably noticed it but just in case.

You should take a look at my API.

http://www.lessieux.com/mywiki/index.ph ... _Interface

I have made a C# wrapper for it, but I have to admit that I have not tested all the functions.
However with the C api available in the DLL, for someone who knows C# it should be easy to fix any bug I introduced in the wrapper.

shsan.
You probably noticed it but just in case.

You should take a look at my API.

http://www.lessieux.com/mywiki/index.ph ... _Interface

I have made a C# wrapper for it, but I have to admit that I have not tested all the functions.
However with the C api available in the DLL, for someone who knows C# it should be easy to fix any bug I introduced in the wrapper.

shsan.
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Post by PaulP » Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:29 pm

Post by PaulP
Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:29 pm

The RCB3J and RCB3 use the same command structure for the majority of the protocol

I use H2H3 and H2H3J to control mine simply because the J version has english on the form. I've checked the outputs and replies with a monitor and for the most part they are identical...

One thing that I ran into and I think shsan will be able to confirm this is that some commands aren't acknowledged the way the document says.

If someone could confirm the replies on the RCB3J it would be useful. There are some commands it would be ideal to use but they don't reply properly on the RCB3
The RCB3J and RCB3 use the same command structure for the majority of the protocol

I use H2H3 and H2H3J to control mine simply because the J version has english on the form. I've checked the outputs and replies with a monitor and for the most part they are identical...

One thing that I ran into and I think shsan will be able to confirm this is that some commands aren't acknowledged the way the document says.

If someone could confirm the replies on the RCB3J it would be useful. There are some commands it would be ideal to use but they don't reply properly on the RCB3
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RCB3 API

Post by rahulko » Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:28 pm

Post by rahulko
Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:28 pm

shsan,

I purchased a Manoi AT-01 for my university control laboratory, and finished putting it together last night. I am completely new to humanoid robotics, but I know a bit about control systems in general. So, your API is extremely exciting to me, since it is precisely what I think is one of the best directions to take with this type of robot. I have not yet started tinkering with your API, but I have a couple of questions for you:

1. Does it allow not only to send commands to the servos, but also to read the analog inputs from the gyros?

2. Would it be possible to create a "control loop," where at a fixed sampling rate the program would first read sensor values, then compute control values for the servos to achieve some goal (say walk straight), then send the values to the RCB3, and start the cycle again?

3. Is the API windows-specific? I would rather do this on my Mac, so I was wondering if there is much that would have to be changed (I suppose all the USB I/O code) to port it to a Mac?

Thanks!
shsan,

I purchased a Manoi AT-01 for my university control laboratory, and finished putting it together last night. I am completely new to humanoid robotics, but I know a bit about control systems in general. So, your API is extremely exciting to me, since it is precisely what I think is one of the best directions to take with this type of robot. I have not yet started tinkering with your API, but I have a couple of questions for you:

1. Does it allow not only to send commands to the servos, but also to read the analog inputs from the gyros?

2. Would it be possible to create a "control loop," where at a fixed sampling rate the program would first read sensor values, then compute control values for the servos to achieve some goal (say walk straight), then send the values to the RCB3, and start the cycle again?

3. Is the API windows-specific? I would rather do this on my Mac, so I was wondering if there is much that would have to be changed (I suppose all the USB I/O code) to port it to a Mac?

Thanks!
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Post by shsan » Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:15 pm

Post by shsan
Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:15 pm

Rahulko,

1. Yes you can read the sensors values as well as the battery level.

2. Well that's a tricky question. In principle the API has all the functions to do it and you might even be able to have it working the way you want.
BUT... It seems that the RCB3 implementation is not geared toward that goal and the functions calls from the Fast Serial connection seem to interrupt the normal behaviour of the RCB3 while processed.
So that might lead to unexpected behavior.
You will have to try it.

3. The API itself is not window-specific and it is fairly standard C so it should not be a big problem to port it to MAC. The only part that you might need to change (not even sure) is the Serial Port Comm class.
I do not provide a Makefile so you will have to create it yourself or just add the files needed into your application.
Since the latest releases include the code, I guess you will have to try. I know that some people ported it to LINUX so MAC should be fairly easy too.

Good Luck.
Rahulko,

1. Yes you can read the sensors values as well as the battery level.

2. Well that's a tricky question. In principle the API has all the functions to do it and you might even be able to have it working the way you want.
BUT... It seems that the RCB3 implementation is not geared toward that goal and the functions calls from the Fast Serial connection seem to interrupt the normal behaviour of the RCB3 while processed.
So that might lead to unexpected behavior.
You will have to try it.

3. The API itself is not window-specific and it is fairly standard C so it should not be a big problem to port it to MAC. The only part that you might need to change (not even sure) is the Serial Port Comm class.
I do not provide a Makefile so you will have to create it yourself or just add the files needed into your application.
Since the latest releases include the code, I guess you will have to try. I know that some people ported it to LINUX so MAC should be fairly easy too.

Good Luck.
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Reg the protocal..

Post by cherlasr » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:49 am

Post by cherlasr
Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:49 am

Hi every1,
Iam sravan and i want to interface the manoi with C API. iam litlebit confused abt how to use this with manoi. how to install this program in to the board how we can call the functions and the program should be executed. i need the steps to use this API.
Hi every1,
Iam sravan and i want to interface the manoi with C API. iam litlebit confused abt how to use this with manoi. how to install this program in to the board how we can call the functions and the program should be executed. i need the steps to use this API.
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Post by Orac » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:04 am

Post by Orac
Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:04 am

Spam above please delete
Spam above please delete
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Re: RCB3 Protocol

Post by IgorT » Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:51 pm

Post by IgorT
Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:51 pm

tempusmaster wrote:That being said, the files created by H2H3 are text files and it seems to be very easy to follow the file format and figure out what's going on.


Interesting... So basically the files that get loaded into RCB-3 are like a simple programming language that the controller executes?

That means it should be possible to learn the syntax and structure and just type the files in a text editor to create more complex algorithms for real time control / manipulation of motion data...


Of course one would paste the motions created elsewhere into the file to have something to work with, but it could allow actual low level programming if no proper language is available for the controller.


I think this might be the good news i've been looking for all night!
tempusmaster wrote:That being said, the files created by H2H3 are text files and it seems to be very easy to follow the file format and figure out what's going on.


Interesting... So basically the files that get loaded into RCB-3 are like a simple programming language that the controller executes?

That means it should be possible to learn the syntax and structure and just type the files in a text editor to create more complex algorithms for real time control / manipulation of motion data...


Of course one would paste the motions created elsewhere into the file to have something to work with, but it could allow actual low level programming if no proper language is available for the controller.


I think this might be the good news i've been looking for all night!
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Re: RCB3 Protocol

Post by tempusmaster » Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:14 pm

Post by tempusmaster
Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:14 pm

IgorT wrote:
tempusmaster wrote:That being said, the files created by H2H3 are text files and it seems to be very easy to follow the file format and figure out what's going on.


Interesting... So basically the files that get loaded into RCB-3 are like a simple programming language that the controller executes?

That means it should be possible to learn the syntax and structure and just type the files in a text editor to create more complex algorithms for real time control / manipulation of motion data...


Of course one would paste the motions created elsewhere into the file to have something to work with, but it could allow actual low level programming if no proper language is available for the controller.


I think this might be the good news i've been looking for all night!


Theoretically, yes. You could create the files with a text editor, though it would take a lot more care and patience than I have personally. Some of the builders here use Excel with VB to generate & modify programs for H2H3. Given enough time you could probably puzzle out all of the H2H3 formats and rules, and create your own version of the GUI.

Still, if you want to do anything really serious, it might make more sense to add something like the Roboard.
IgorT wrote:
tempusmaster wrote:That being said, the files created by H2H3 are text files and it seems to be very easy to follow the file format and figure out what's going on.


Interesting... So basically the files that get loaded into RCB-3 are like a simple programming language that the controller executes?

That means it should be possible to learn the syntax and structure and just type the files in a text editor to create more complex algorithms for real time control / manipulation of motion data...


Of course one would paste the motions created elsewhere into the file to have something to work with, but it could allow actual low level programming if no proper language is available for the controller.


I think this might be the good news i've been looking for all night!


Theoretically, yes. You could create the files with a text editor, though it would take a lot more care and patience than I have personally. Some of the builders here use Excel with VB to generate & modify programs for H2H3. Given enough time you could probably puzzle out all of the H2H3 formats and rules, and create your own version of the GUI.

Still, if you want to do anything really serious, it might make more sense to add something like the Roboard.
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Re: RCB3 Protocol

Post by IgorT » Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:37 pm

Post by IgorT
Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:37 pm

tempusmaster wrote:Still, if you want to do anything really serious, it might make more sense to add something like the Roboard.


That's exactly what i'm planning ever since i first read it's specs... It truly is a robot builder's dream come true! It will be absolutely amazing with my MANOI.


I mean, i want to have direct low level control over everything in order to manipulate motion data in real time to implement advanced balancing behavior at all times regardless of what the robot is doing and at the same time give it some pretend AI with curiosity, a wish to explore, a desire to follow moving objects, perhaps some spatial awareness and even motivation to try completelly new and random things and remember them as good (to try again and perhaps try to modify for even better results, etc.) or bad (to avoid in the future or at least try to modify to reduce or elliminate the negative result (or simple lack of any result) in the future) and thereby "learn" by trial and error, possibly even evolving complex behaviour this way, out of completely random initial "spasms"...

Already my ideas were big for a 16MHz procesor with little memory before i even found RCB-3's specs.. Not to mention that it would cost me $800 just to pimp it out with remote, limited 2 axis accel/gyro sensors, requiring a sensor interface board due to limited ADC inputs, just to get those two running, never mind adding distance and other sensors and still ending up with poor capabilities...

Not when i can get a powerful but tiny 1GHz PC optimized for robots, together with full 3 axis accel./gyro/compass sensors AND an LCD for only $660! :shock:


And instead of merely knowing the distance to an object in front of it, this thing could look people in the eyes and/or measure the distance to whatever is in the center of the camera view up to 1.5m away, while simultaneously doing a myriad of other complicated and bizarre things... Perhaps even combine simple color detection with the distance sensor and compass data, scanning around to create a spatial map of it's surroundings without eating up too much processing power...

So much more for so much less! I do love this store. In fact i'm already planning to also get the RoboBuilder with yet another RoBoard to make a fun pet dog or spider that would play with my cat or follow her or people around the house and annoy them. Oh the possibilities!


Man, i'm so hopelessly hooked! :roll:

I can't stop thinking about it, even tho i know it'll be more than a week before i even see my beautiful new MANOI up close...

I don't think i've ever been this excited about anything... :D
tempusmaster wrote:Still, if you want to do anything really serious, it might make more sense to add something like the Roboard.


That's exactly what i'm planning ever since i first read it's specs... It truly is a robot builder's dream come true! It will be absolutely amazing with my MANOI.


I mean, i want to have direct low level control over everything in order to manipulate motion data in real time to implement advanced balancing behavior at all times regardless of what the robot is doing and at the same time give it some pretend AI with curiosity, a wish to explore, a desire to follow moving objects, perhaps some spatial awareness and even motivation to try completelly new and random things and remember them as good (to try again and perhaps try to modify for even better results, etc.) or bad (to avoid in the future or at least try to modify to reduce or elliminate the negative result (or simple lack of any result) in the future) and thereby "learn" by trial and error, possibly even evolving complex behaviour this way, out of completely random initial "spasms"...

Already my ideas were big for a 16MHz procesor with little memory before i even found RCB-3's specs.. Not to mention that it would cost me $800 just to pimp it out with remote, limited 2 axis accel/gyro sensors, requiring a sensor interface board due to limited ADC inputs, just to get those two running, never mind adding distance and other sensors and still ending up with poor capabilities...

Not when i can get a powerful but tiny 1GHz PC optimized for robots, together with full 3 axis accel./gyro/compass sensors AND an LCD for only $660! :shock:


And instead of merely knowing the distance to an object in front of it, this thing could look people in the eyes and/or measure the distance to whatever is in the center of the camera view up to 1.5m away, while simultaneously doing a myriad of other complicated and bizarre things... Perhaps even combine simple color detection with the distance sensor and compass data, scanning around to create a spatial map of it's surroundings without eating up too much processing power...

So much more for so much less! I do love this store. In fact i'm already planning to also get the RoboBuilder with yet another RoBoard to make a fun pet dog or spider that would play with my cat or follow her or people around the house and annoy them. Oh the possibilities!


Man, i'm so hopelessly hooked! :roll:

I can't stop thinking about it, even tho i know it'll be more than a week before i even see my beautiful new MANOI up close...

I don't think i've ever been this excited about anything... :D
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Post by david9091 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:44 am

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Hi Everyone i hope you will be fine ...... thanks for this useful and nice post i request you all to share many more informative post for us ...... thanks a lot good luck
Hi Everyone i hope you will be fine ...... thanks for this useful and nice post i request you all to share many more informative post for us ...... thanks a lot good luck
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