Who really makes the RB1000?

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Who really makes the RB1000?

Post by evaderdjo » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:58 pm

Post by evaderdjo
Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:58 pm

Can someone explain who really manufactures the RB1000? I believe it is Graupner in Germany. but then I also read about JR Propo. Is JR just a distributor for RB1000 in Japan? If I wanted to buy one in the US, would it be made in Germany or made in Japan? Why doesn't Robosavvy offer the RB1000?
Can someone explain who really manufactures the RB1000? I believe it is Graupner in Germany. but then I also read about JR Propo. Is JR just a distributor for RB1000 in Japan? If I wanted to buy one in the US, would it be made in Germany or made in Japan? Why doesn't Robosavvy offer the RB1000?
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Re: Who really makes the RB1000?

Post by tempusmaster » Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:09 am

Post by tempusmaster
Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:09 am

evaderdjo wrote:Can someone explain who really manufactures the RB1000? I believe it is Graupner in Germany. but then I also read about JR Propo. Is JR just a distributor for RB1000 in Japan? If I wanted to buy one in the US, would it be made in Germany or made in Japan? Why doesn't Robosavvy offer the RB1000?

It's the other way around. Graupner is the German distributor and resells the JR robot under their own name. The product is manufactured by JR in Japan.

The RB1000 is only one model in the JR robot line-up - you might also take a look at the RB2000 and RB300. The basic design for the series was done by VStone in Japan, and you can see the similarity to Maeda-san's design work with Omnizero.
evaderdjo wrote:Can someone explain who really manufactures the RB1000? I believe it is Graupner in Germany. but then I also read about JR Propo. Is JR just a distributor for RB1000 in Japan? If I wanted to buy one in the US, would it be made in Germany or made in Japan? Why doesn't Robosavvy offer the RB1000?

It's the other way around. Graupner is the German distributor and resells the JR robot under their own name. The product is manufactured by JR in Japan.

The RB1000 is only one model in the JR robot line-up - you might also take a look at the RB2000 and RB300. The basic design for the series was done by VStone in Japan, and you can see the similarity to Maeda-san's design work with Omnizero.
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Post by evaderdjo » Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:26 am

Post by evaderdjo
Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:26 am

Thanks. I am having trouble finding a US price for any RB product (from either Graupner or JR). Is there somewhere that offers these Humanoids in the US?
Thanks. I am having trouble finding a US price for any RB product (from either Graupner or JR). Is there somewhere that offers these Humanoids in the US?
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Post by tempusmaster » Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:25 am

Post by tempusmaster
Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:25 am

evaderdjo wrote:Thanks. I am having trouble finding a US price for any RB product (from either Graupner or JR). Is there somewhere that offers these Humanoids in the US?

Sorry - can't help you there. I live in Japan and have no idea who's carrying it in the US.

The latest Robot Magazine issue (Fall 2007) has a good review on the robot by Harry, but doesn't mention any US source either, unfortunately.

Just out of curiousity, what is it about the RB1000 that appeals to you? Design, performance, hackability, ...?
evaderdjo wrote:Thanks. I am having trouble finding a US price for any RB product (from either Graupner or JR). Is there somewhere that offers these Humanoids in the US?

Sorry - can't help you there. I live in Japan and have no idea who's carrying it in the US.

The latest Robot Magazine issue (Fall 2007) has a good review on the robot by Harry, but doesn't mention any US source either, unfortunately.

Just out of curiousity, what is it about the RB1000 that appeals to you? Design, performance, hackability, ...?
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Post by evaderdjo » Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:22 am

Post by evaderdjo
Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:22 am

I am new to robotics. As a careful shopper, I am trying to compare all the models that are available to see what is right for me. I would hate to spend a lot of money on a robot, only to have a better one come out the next day, for less money.
I am new to robotics. As a careful shopper, I am trying to compare all the models that are available to see what is right for me. I would hate to spend a lot of money on a robot, only to have a better one come out the next day, for less money.
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Post by tempusmaster » Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:39 am

Post by tempusmaster
Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:39 am

evaderdjo wrote:I am new to robotics. As a careful shopper, I am trying to compare all the models that are available to see what is right for me.


Good approach.
I would hate to spend a lot of money on a robot, only to have a better one come out the next day, for less money.


Well, realistically robotics today is very much like personal computers were 20-25 years ago. There are always going to be new ones coming out, and the prices will drop - it's a given.
evaderdjo wrote:I am new to robotics. As a careful shopper, I am trying to compare all the models that are available to see what is right for me.


Good approach.
I would hate to spend a lot of money on a robot, only to have a better one come out the next day, for less money.


Well, realistically robotics today is very much like personal computers were 20-25 years ago. There are always going to be new ones coming out, and the prices will drop - it's a given.
Latest robot news, information, reviews, hacks, photos, and videos - with special on-site coverage from Japan
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Post by evaderdjo » Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:20 pm

Post by evaderdjo
Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:20 pm

It is very funny that you mention that, because that is exactly what I am trying to do. When you buy a brand new car, the minute you drive it home it loses about 20% of its value. It has a very predictable rate at which it value decreases. Same thing for computers. A new laptop is only good for 3 years or so before it is obsolete.

I am trying to figure out the same thing for robots by tracking the price at the release date versus the price today. It will be very interesting to watch how current models will adjust their price when the I-Sobot comes out in October at a much cheaper price.

Do you know where I could get historical data on how prices have come down, not just on RB1000 but on all models?
It is very funny that you mention that, because that is exactly what I am trying to do. When you buy a brand new car, the minute you drive it home it loses about 20% of its value. It has a very predictable rate at which it value decreases. Same thing for computers. A new laptop is only good for 3 years or so before it is obsolete.

I am trying to figure out the same thing for robots by tracking the price at the release date versus the price today. It will be very interesting to watch how current models will adjust their price when the I-Sobot comes out in October at a much cheaper price.

Do you know where I could get historical data on how prices have come down, not just on RB1000 but on all models?
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Post by cdraptor » Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:30 pm

Post by cdraptor
Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:30 pm

I just went through the process and to be honest I've bought 2 humanoids - the Bioloid as a nice starting kit and actually a rather functional bot with IR sensors, sound, etc. The initial bot that I ordered and now finally have is the Futaba RBT-1 which is actually a bit more expensive than a few of the bots out there, it has better DOF than many and comes ready to go assembled and with PS/2 remote control (in US it is assembled). The downside of the Futaba RBT-1 is the size and weight if you would want to enter into a Robo-One wrestling event, he's quick but doesn't have much power to knock over a big guy and his weight makes him pretty easy to push around.

Currently I am messing with building one - starting out small with Lynxmotion BRAT with eventual goal to have a larger full size Biped - after some larger (much more expensive) servos.

One thing to consider is how modifiable the Robot is - once you get through doing all the normal stuff what is next - adding on various sensors, different controller or hacking controllers for different methods to program. Adding wireless interfaces to remote control, camera, grippers you name it.

Some are better designed and planned to allow the users to do this. Some like the Robonova have been around a while and people have done alot of hacks, some of which you can buy, some you can follow the instructions posted in forums etc.

If you wait to long your going to miss out on what I consider now to be a great time for people that like to explore and tinker with stuff. Eventually your going to see more general public based bots such as the Nuvo ($7,000) which are a bit more pricey to play around with.

Any bot you buy now within 6 - 12 months you'll be looking at something even better and possibly cheaper that you wish you could have, but if you wait 6 - 12 months to get one, you'll have the same thing happen.

I would say with all the activity that more companies are coming out with Humanoids much more frequent - versus the early days of Kondo & Robnova. Check out:

http://www.robophilo.com

Don't know the servo specs but at under $500 for a full size humanoid with 20 servos - sounds too good to be true. I would imagine the servos that come with it are not very powerful, but I think they are targeting the hobbyists who want to hack.
I just went through the process and to be honest I've bought 2 humanoids - the Bioloid as a nice starting kit and actually a rather functional bot with IR sensors, sound, etc. The initial bot that I ordered and now finally have is the Futaba RBT-1 which is actually a bit more expensive than a few of the bots out there, it has better DOF than many and comes ready to go assembled and with PS/2 remote control (in US it is assembled). The downside of the Futaba RBT-1 is the size and weight if you would want to enter into a Robo-One wrestling event, he's quick but doesn't have much power to knock over a big guy and his weight makes him pretty easy to push around.

Currently I am messing with building one - starting out small with Lynxmotion BRAT with eventual goal to have a larger full size Biped - after some larger (much more expensive) servos.

One thing to consider is how modifiable the Robot is - once you get through doing all the normal stuff what is next - adding on various sensors, different controller or hacking controllers for different methods to program. Adding wireless interfaces to remote control, camera, grippers you name it.

Some are better designed and planned to allow the users to do this. Some like the Robonova have been around a while and people have done alot of hacks, some of which you can buy, some you can follow the instructions posted in forums etc.

If you wait to long your going to miss out on what I consider now to be a great time for people that like to explore and tinker with stuff. Eventually your going to see more general public based bots such as the Nuvo ($7,000) which are a bit more pricey to play around with.

Any bot you buy now within 6 - 12 months you'll be looking at something even better and possibly cheaper that you wish you could have, but if you wait 6 - 12 months to get one, you'll have the same thing happen.

I would say with all the activity that more companies are coming out with Humanoids much more frequent - versus the early days of Kondo & Robnova. Check out:

http://www.robophilo.com

Don't know the servo specs but at under $500 for a full size humanoid with 20 servos - sounds too good to be true. I would imagine the servos that come with it are not very powerful, but I think they are targeting the hobbyists who want to hack.
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Post by evaderdjo » Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:47 am

Post by evaderdjo
Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:47 am

I think we are at a very interesting time in robotics, and we can predict what will happen from here based on how other industries developed, like cars or computers. At the moment you have 3 or 4 big players like Kondo, Hitec and Robotis dominating the market. But new players keep entering the market. I have to imagine that the next movement will be to specialize and develop brand names. Kondo and Hitec are for hobbyists who like to hack and code. Bioloid is for roboticist who want to try biped, quadraped, and other forms.

Then you have Manoi establishing the "luxury" brand with premium price, and a fancy shell. You also get the bargain model from I-Sobot and Robotis with cheaper price, but maybe lesser quality.

Based on the way the auto and computer industries work, the only companies that are going to survive will be the ones that have the greatest mass appeal, so they can get economies of scale. I think very shortly the hobbyist end of the spectrum will die out, simply because it is not profitable. The average consumers will demand "hacks" to be loaded onto their robot as standard (grippers, gyros, sensors) so they don't have to hassle with it. Do you remember when air conditioning and power locks were upgrades on cars, and now they are standard?

Whichever company figures it out first could make a whole lot of money. I am trying to figure out which one it will be.
I think we are at a very interesting time in robotics, and we can predict what will happen from here based on how other industries developed, like cars or computers. At the moment you have 3 or 4 big players like Kondo, Hitec and Robotis dominating the market. But new players keep entering the market. I have to imagine that the next movement will be to specialize and develop brand names. Kondo and Hitec are for hobbyists who like to hack and code. Bioloid is for roboticist who want to try biped, quadraped, and other forms.

Then you have Manoi establishing the "luxury" brand with premium price, and a fancy shell. You also get the bargain model from I-Sobot and Robotis with cheaper price, but maybe lesser quality.

Based on the way the auto and computer industries work, the only companies that are going to survive will be the ones that have the greatest mass appeal, so they can get economies of scale. I think very shortly the hobbyist end of the spectrum will die out, simply because it is not profitable. The average consumers will demand "hacks" to be loaded onto their robot as standard (grippers, gyros, sensors) so they don't have to hassle with it. Do you remember when air conditioning and power locks were upgrades on cars, and now they are standard?

Whichever company figures it out first could make a whole lot of money. I am trying to figure out which one it will be.
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Post by srobot » Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:07 pm

Post by srobot
Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:07 pm

I thought RoboSavvy sold them way back (about 1 - 2 years ago).

Looking at the store I don't see them anymore.

Limor?

--Scotty
I thought RoboSavvy sold them way back (about 1 - 2 years ago).

Looking at the store I don't see them anymore.

Limor?

--Scotty
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Post by Bullit » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:59 am

Post by Bullit
Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:59 am

One thing to keep in mind with the rb1000 is that the Robovie software although pretty slick is entirely in Japanese. Perhaps Graupner has a German version but I have not seen it. This is likely why its not sold in the US. If anyone sold it it would be Horizon Hobby because they have the exclusive rights to JR products in the US.
The electronics are fairly advanced. Designed by Vstone using an arm 7 micro. The rb1000 uses JR digital servos. Another thing to note is that the JR servos do not have the ability to be read so it has no catch and play capability like Robonova or Bioloid.
One thing to keep in mind with the rb1000 is that the Robovie software although pretty slick is entirely in Japanese. Perhaps Graupner has a German version but I have not seen it. This is likely why its not sold in the US. If anyone sold it it would be Horizon Hobby because they have the exclusive rights to JR products in the US.
The electronics are fairly advanced. Designed by Vstone using an arm 7 micro. The rb1000 uses JR digital servos. Another thing to note is that the JR servos do not have the ability to be read so it has no catch and play capability like Robonova or Bioloid.
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Post by tempusmaster » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:30 am

Post by tempusmaster
Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:30 am

Bullit wrote:One thing to keep in mind with the rb1000 is that the Robovie software although pretty slick is entirely in Japanese. Perhaps Graupner has a German version but I have not seen it.

Graupner provides both a German and an English version with all the documentation (English and German) downloadable online. They also have downloadable versions of the software in both languages.
This is likely why its not sold in the US. If anyone sold it it would be Horizon Hobby because they have the exclusive rights to JR products in the US.

A lot of the traditional RC manufacturers did exclusive deals that ended up limiting their ability to effectively promote new products - like humanoid robotics - because their exclusive partners didn't have the interest, resources, or distribution channel to put it across.
The electronics are fairly advanced. Designed by Vstone using an arm 7 micro. The rb1000 uses JR digital servos. Another thing to note is that the JR servos do not have the ability to be read so it has no catch and play capability like Robonova or Bioloid.

At that price point the ability to do some sort of catch and play is really important - at least in my opinion. Creating new motion sequences with the KHR series, and probably with the RN and Bioloid though I don't have any hands-on experience with them, is really easy using catch and play. I can't imagine doing without it unless the price was really cheap like RoboPhilo.

RoboPhilo tries to address the issue by providing a large number of poses (150), motion sequences and routines so that you can pick something close to what you want then modify it.

All that being said, the RB1000 does have its fans and supporters. People that like it seem to really like it a lot.
Bullit wrote:One thing to keep in mind with the rb1000 is that the Robovie software although pretty slick is entirely in Japanese. Perhaps Graupner has a German version but I have not seen it.

Graupner provides both a German and an English version with all the documentation (English and German) downloadable online. They also have downloadable versions of the software in both languages.
This is likely why its not sold in the US. If anyone sold it it would be Horizon Hobby because they have the exclusive rights to JR products in the US.

A lot of the traditional RC manufacturers did exclusive deals that ended up limiting their ability to effectively promote new products - like humanoid robotics - because their exclusive partners didn't have the interest, resources, or distribution channel to put it across.
The electronics are fairly advanced. Designed by Vstone using an arm 7 micro. The rb1000 uses JR digital servos. Another thing to note is that the JR servos do not have the ability to be read so it has no catch and play capability like Robonova or Bioloid.

At that price point the ability to do some sort of catch and play is really important - at least in my opinion. Creating new motion sequences with the KHR series, and probably with the RN and Bioloid though I don't have any hands-on experience with them, is really easy using catch and play. I can't imagine doing without it unless the price was really cheap like RoboPhilo.

RoboPhilo tries to address the issue by providing a large number of poses (150), motion sequences and routines so that you can pick something close to what you want then modify it.

All that being said, the RB1000 does have its fans and supporters. People that like it seem to really like it a lot.
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Post by Bullit » Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:31 pm

Post by Bullit
Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:31 pm

Interesting, I hadn't seen the English version before. Tinkering around with it I think it seems to have fewer features the the Japanese version.
Interesting, I hadn't seen the English version before. Tinkering around with it I think it seems to have fewer features the the Japanese version.
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Post by ahtisham454 » Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:48 am

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Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:48 am

I’m glad I chose to read this one. Nice work!
I’m glad I chose to read this one. Nice work!
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