Are Humanoids Growing Bigger?

Discussions regarding building a walking robot at home. Most of the robots participating at Robo-One competitions are custom fabricated.
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Are Humanoids Growing Bigger?

Post by Humanoido » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:18 pm

Post by Humanoido
Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:18 pm

I see a couple Japanese humanoids have increased their size. Is this due to the availability of some new large servos? Is this the beginning of a new trend in humanoid robotics? What do you think?

humanoido
I see a couple Japanese humanoids have increased their size. Is this due to the availability of some new large servos? Is this the beginning of a new trend in humanoid robotics? What do you think?

humanoido
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Re: Are Humanoids Growing Bigger?

Post by tempusmaster » Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:56 pm

Post by tempusmaster
Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:56 pm

Humanoido wrote:I see a couple Japanese humanoids have increased their size. Is this due to the availability of some new large servos? Is this the beginning of a new trend in humanoid robotics? What do you think?

humanoido

The ROBO-ONE committee, specifically Nishimura, has been pushing the guys to build bigger robots for the past couple years, and now we're finally starting to see some results. He eventually wants to have a 100 kg class.

The servos they're using now aren't that new. Some JR (Omnizero), some high end Kondo, and some Robotis (Gadget Team, Dynamizer).

The biggest single issue is cost. As the weight and power/torque requirements go up, the cost and complexity increases a lot faster. Some of the builders will invest $10-20k or more in building a normal ROBO-ONE size robot over the course of a year or so. As they get larger, the investment goes up. Not a lot of people can play at that end of the spectrum.
Humanoido wrote:I see a couple Japanese humanoids have increased their size. Is this due to the availability of some new large servos? Is this the beginning of a new trend in humanoid robotics? What do you think?

humanoido

The ROBO-ONE committee, specifically Nishimura, has been pushing the guys to build bigger robots for the past couple years, and now we're finally starting to see some results. He eventually wants to have a 100 kg class.

The servos they're using now aren't that new. Some JR (Omnizero), some high end Kondo, and some Robotis (Gadget Team, Dynamizer).

The biggest single issue is cost. As the weight and power/torque requirements go up, the cost and complexity increases a lot faster. Some of the builders will invest $10-20k or more in building a normal ROBO-ONE size robot over the course of a year or so. As they get larger, the investment goes up. Not a lot of people can play at that end of the spectrum.
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Post by JonHylands » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:49 pm

Post by JonHylands
Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:49 pm

Lem,

Do you know which Robotis servos the guys were using? Are they DX-117, or some of the new RX-series (RX-28, RX-64)?

- Jon
Lem,

Do you know which Robotis servos the guys were using? Are they DX-117, or some of the new RX-series (RX-28, RX-64)?

- Jon
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Post by tempusmaster » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:54 pm

Post by tempusmaster
Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:54 pm

JonHylands wrote:Lem,

Do you know which Robotis servos the guys were using? Are they DX-117, or some of the new RX-series (RX-28, RX-64)?

- Jon

Some of the photos of the Gadget Team robots show DX-117 labels. Sugiura (Dynamizer) mentioned both the RX-28 and RX-64. I plan on following up with him to get more detail as soon as both of our schedules line up.
JonHylands wrote:Lem,

Do you know which Robotis servos the guys were using? Are they DX-117, or some of the new RX-series (RX-28, RX-64)?

- Jon

Some of the photos of the Gadget Team robots show DX-117 labels. Sugiura (Dynamizer) mentioned both the RX-28 and RX-64. I plan on following up with him to get more detail as soon as both of our schedules line up.
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Post by Bullit » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:18 pm

Post by Bullit
Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:18 pm

I'm using some Robotis dx-117's for a project where I have created test robots, basically 3 axis robots that can push buttons on keyboards and tap on touch screens to test the operation of another instrument we have designed and intend to manufacture. I have to say these servos are amazing. They work 24/7 in environmental chambers where we have difficulty getting humans to accept or continue the task of testing instruments in the heat, humidity and cold. The dx-117's never miss a beat and after months of continuous testing there is still no sign of wear and certainly no failures. Its clear why they are the servo of choice for Robo-Cup and now Robo-One robots. Not only high performance but also durability.
I'm using some Robotis dx-117's for a project where I have created test robots, basically 3 axis robots that can push buttons on keyboards and tap on touch screens to test the operation of another instrument we have designed and intend to manufacture. I have to say these servos are amazing. They work 24/7 in environmental chambers where we have difficulty getting humans to accept or continue the task of testing instruments in the heat, humidity and cold. The dx-117's never miss a beat and after months of continuous testing there is still no sign of wear and certainly no failures. Its clear why they are the servo of choice for Robo-Cup and now Robo-One robots. Not only high performance but also durability.
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Post by tempusmaster » Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:15 am

Post by tempusmaster
Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:15 am

Bullit wrote:I'm using some Robotis dx-117's for a project where I have created test robots, basically 3 axis robots that can push buttons on keyboards and tap on touch screens to test the operation of another instrument we have designed and intend to manufacture. I have to say these servos are amazing. They work 24/7 in environmental chambers where we have difficulty getting humans to accept or continue the task of testing instruments in the heat, humidity and cold. The dx-117's never miss a beat and after months of continuous testing there is still no sign of wear and certainly no failures. Its clear why they are the servo of choice for Robo-Cup and now Robo-One robots.

Well, for some of the ROBO-ONE builders. Robotis is just starting to make inroads, and so far only at the high end/heavyweight end. The performance is great, no question. But it's not just the technical factors. Another major factor that contributed to the success of Robotis for ROBO-ONE 12 was personal attention. One of the top Robotis executives has been devoting special attention to some of the key builders to make sure that they had everything they needed. That's not negative at all - in fact I'm very happy to see it happen. If will force the other manufacturers to step up their support as well.
Not only high performance but also durability.

And support. :D
Bullit wrote:I'm using some Robotis dx-117's for a project where I have created test robots, basically 3 axis robots that can push buttons on keyboards and tap on touch screens to test the operation of another instrument we have designed and intend to manufacture. I have to say these servos are amazing. They work 24/7 in environmental chambers where we have difficulty getting humans to accept or continue the task of testing instruments in the heat, humidity and cold. The dx-117's never miss a beat and after months of continuous testing there is still no sign of wear and certainly no failures. Its clear why they are the servo of choice for Robo-Cup and now Robo-One robots.

Well, for some of the ROBO-ONE builders. Robotis is just starting to make inroads, and so far only at the high end/heavyweight end. The performance is great, no question. But it's not just the technical factors. Another major factor that contributed to the success of Robotis for ROBO-ONE 12 was personal attention. One of the top Robotis executives has been devoting special attention to some of the key builders to make sure that they had everything they needed. That's not negative at all - in fact I'm very happy to see it happen. If will force the other manufacturers to step up their support as well.
Not only high performance but also durability.

And support. :D
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Post by bauermech » Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:23 am

Post by bauermech
Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:23 am

After doing my fair share of research, I have to admit I'm even leaning toward the dynamixels. ...that and we all saw how well Zog and Oro performed at RoboGames using the 117's. :D The servos are crazy fast (even while moving several at the same time), have plenty of torque, and those that operate at higher voltages are much more efficient. I don't know if I can make the jump at this point, but it's something I'm putting some heavy thought into for the future.
After doing my fair share of research, I have to admit I'm even leaning toward the dynamixels. ...that and we all saw how well Zog and Oro performed at RoboGames using the 117's. :D The servos are crazy fast (even while moving several at the same time), have plenty of torque, and those that operate at higher voltages are much more efficient. I don't know if I can make the jump at this point, but it's something I'm putting some heavy thought into for the future.
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Post by tempusmaster » Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:55 am

Post by tempusmaster
Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:55 am

bauermech wrote:After doing my fair share of research, I have to admit I'm even leaning toward the dynamixels. ...that and we all saw how well Zog and Oro performed at RoboGames using the 117's. :D The servos are crazy fast (even while moving several at the same time), have plenty of torque, and those that operate at higher voltages are much more efficient. I don't know if I can make the jump at this point, but it's something I'm putting some heavy thought into for the future.

Well, the old clock on the wall says there are only about 172 days left, or a little over 4,000 hours if you work around the clock and counting... :shock:
bauermech wrote:After doing my fair share of research, I have to admit I'm even leaning toward the dynamixels. ...that and we all saw how well Zog and Oro performed at RoboGames using the 117's. :D The servos are crazy fast (even while moving several at the same time), have plenty of torque, and those that operate at higher voltages are much more efficient. I don't know if I can make the jump at this point, but it's something I'm putting some heavy thought into for the future.

Well, the old clock on the wall says there are only about 172 days left, or a little over 4,000 hours if you work around the clock and counting... :shock:
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Post by bauermech » Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:53 pm

Post by bauermech
Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:53 pm

Well, the old clock on the wall says there are only about 172 days left, or a little over 4,000 hours if you work around the clock and counting...

Yeah, that's part of the problem... well, and the cost too. I think what I'm going to do is just spend all the (now) 171 days programming the snot out of Pawn. Time has rapidly snuck up on me in the past while fussing with the structural mods. So this time I want to be well prepared far in advance with an amazing demonstration routine, and gobbs of tricky moves for fighting. :twisted:

This may be a question far to early to answer, but any word on what the demonstration theme will be for 13? I hope they're not quite ready for juggling robots yet :shock:
Well, the old clock on the wall says there are only about 172 days left, or a little over 4,000 hours if you work around the clock and counting...

Yeah, that's part of the problem... well, and the cost too. I think what I'm going to do is just spend all the (now) 171 days programming the snot out of Pawn. Time has rapidly snuck up on me in the past while fussing with the structural mods. So this time I want to be well prepared far in advance with an amazing demonstration routine, and gobbs of tricky moves for fighting. :twisted:

This may be a question far to early to answer, but any word on what the demonstration theme will be for 13? I hope they're not quite ready for juggling robots yet :shock:
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Post by tempusmaster » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:48 pm

Post by tempusmaster
Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:48 pm

bauermech wrote:
Well, the old clock on the wall says there are only about 172 days left, or a little over 4,000 hours if you work around the clock and counting...

Yeah, that's part of the problem... well, and the cost too. I think what I'm going to do is just spend all the (now) 171 days programming the snot out of Pawn. Time has rapidly snuck up on me in the past while fussing with the structural mods. So this time I want to be well prepared far in advance with an amazing demonstration routine, and gobbs of tricky moves for fighting. :twisted:

This may be a question far to early to answer, but any word on what the demonstration theme will be for 13? I hope they're not quite ready for juggling robots yet :shock:

No word yet, at least that I remember. I'll go back over my notes and the websites, and let you know as soon as they do. Nishimura is really obsessed with the idea of the Google robot on the moon challenge at the moment, so it might have something to do with that.
bauermech wrote:
Well, the old clock on the wall says there are only about 172 days left, or a little over 4,000 hours if you work around the clock and counting...

Yeah, that's part of the problem... well, and the cost too. I think what I'm going to do is just spend all the (now) 171 days programming the snot out of Pawn. Time has rapidly snuck up on me in the past while fussing with the structural mods. So this time I want to be well prepared far in advance with an amazing demonstration routine, and gobbs of tricky moves for fighting. :twisted:

This may be a question far to early to answer, but any word on what the demonstration theme will be for 13? I hope they're not quite ready for juggling robots yet :shock:

No word yet, at least that I remember. I'll go back over my notes and the websites, and let you know as soon as they do. Nishimura is really obsessed with the idea of the Google robot on the moon challenge at the moment, so it might have something to do with that.
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Post by Project 107 » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:59 pm

Post by Project 107
Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:59 pm

There geting biger because thats the reason the Hominids were built in the first place. the first ones were built from lack of suply now with more money going into them the japenies are making it to the size of a man.

Thats what I think on this subject
There geting biger because thats the reason the Hominids were built in the first place. the first ones were built from lack of suply now with more money going into them the japenies are making it to the size of a man.

Thats what I think on this subject
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Post by Humanoido » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:22 am

Post by Humanoido
Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:22 am

...Although the prize is for a lunar rover on the Moon and not a humanoid. Personally, I'd like to see a humanoid walking around.
Google Inc. is bankrolling a $30 million contest that could significantly boost the commercial space industry and spur the first non-governmental flight to the moon. Call it Moon 2.0. The bulk of the prize will go to the first private company that can land a robotic rover on the moon and beam back a gigabyte of images and video to Earth

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070914/ap_on_hi_te/google_moon_prize

humanoido
...Although the prize is for a lunar rover on the Moon and not a humanoid. Personally, I'd like to see a humanoid walking around.
Google Inc. is bankrolling a $30 million contest that could significantly boost the commercial space industry and spur the first non-governmental flight to the moon. Call it Moon 2.0. The bulk of the prize will go to the first private company that can land a robotic rover on the moon and beam back a gigabyte of images and video to Earth

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070914/ap_on_hi_te/google_moon_prize

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Post by Project 107 » Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:04 am

Post by Project 107
Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:04 am

Beter then a huminiod on the moon is Larger huminiods walking the streats like in I-Robot. though that feals like its never going to hapen well.... in my time at least.

a small huminiod on moon seams more likely lol!

:mrgreen:
Beter then a huminiod on the moon is Larger huminiods walking the streats like in I-Robot. though that feals like its never going to hapen well.... in my time at least.

a small huminiod on moon seams more likely lol!

:mrgreen:
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Post by Robo1 » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:58 pm

Post by Robo1
Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:58 pm

Hi

Maybe tempusmaster can answer this one. Looking at the video of King Kizer's he still has the flippers for the hands. I'm sure that I read some were that robo-one in japan had changed the rules to make this illegal so that the bots are more human like.

Bren
Hi

Maybe tempusmaster can answer this one. Looking at the video of King Kizer's he still has the flippers for the hands. I'm sure that I read some were that robo-one in japan had changed the rules to make this illegal so that the bots are more human like.

Bren
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Post by sthmck » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:59 pm

Post by sthmck
Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:59 pm

Hey robo1,
I don't know for sure if there are any official rules on arm extensions. I do remember reading a thread on this site that talked about it though. Is that what you remember reading?
Hey robo1,
I don't know for sure if there are any official rules on arm extensions. I do remember reading a thread on this site that talked about it though. Is that what you remember reading?
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