Working Bluetooth solution for KHR-1 and now also KHR1(2)HV

KHR-1, KHR-2HV, KHR-3HV, ICS servos, RCB controllers and other Kondo products
16 postsPage 1 of 21, 2
16 postsPage 1 of 21, 2

Working Bluetooth solution for KHR-1 and now also KHR1(2)HV

Post by Meltdown » Tue May 16, 2006 12:08 am

Post by Meltdown
Tue May 16, 2006 12:08 am

IMPORTANT NOTE This is for RCB1-KHR1 only
My last post in this thread is for the new RCB3(J)-KHR1(2)-HV systems.


You need:
One Bluetooth serial rs232 adapter (see below)
One ordinary Bluetooth usb stick or buetooth build into the computer.
Version 1.3 of the Heart2Heart software. (version 1.1 English WON'T work!)
http://www.nodna.com/fileadmin/download ... rt_1R3.rar

Some brands of BT rs232 adaptors to choose from:
1) Iogear GBS301(cheap on eBay)
2) Free2move F2M01
3) Socket cordless serial adaptor
4) Blueport

There are more for sure. Best is to choose class1 100m versions for both BT modules.

You even don't have to modify anything in the original rs232 plug if you get
a BT serial adaptor with a female rs232 plug and use a gender changer.
This may seem odd because you're tempted to buy a male one.
The reason is that when using one with a male plug you have to twist all the connections except for pin 5 (Ground)

The reason why it wouldn't work before was due to H2H version 1.1 English.
It clearly contains a bug found by fellow member noDNA (Thanks for that!)

Set both modules to work with 115.000 baud
That's it.
IMPORTANT NOTE This is for RCB1-KHR1 only
My last post in this thread is for the new RCB3(J)-KHR1(2)-HV systems.


You need:
One Bluetooth serial rs232 adapter (see below)
One ordinary Bluetooth usb stick or buetooth build into the computer.
Version 1.3 of the Heart2Heart software. (version 1.1 English WON'T work!)
http://www.nodna.com/fileadmin/download ... rt_1R3.rar

Some brands of BT rs232 adaptors to choose from:
1) Iogear GBS301(cheap on eBay)
2) Free2move F2M01
3) Socket cordless serial adaptor
4) Blueport

There are more for sure. Best is to choose class1 100m versions for both BT modules.

You even don't have to modify anything in the original rs232 plug if you get
a BT serial adaptor with a female rs232 plug and use a gender changer.
This may seem odd because you're tempted to buy a male one.
The reason is that when using one with a male plug you have to twist all the connections except for pin 5 (Ground)

The reason why it wouldn't work before was due to H2H version 1.1 English.
It clearly contains a bug found by fellow member noDNA (Thanks for that!)

Set both modules to work with 115.000 baud
That's it.
Last edited by Meltdown on Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:21 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Post by limor » Tue May 16, 2006 1:43 am

Post by limor
Tue May 16, 2006 1:43 am

Thank you Meltdown and NoDNA for finally cracking all the KHR-1 wireless issues.

Kondo just released H2H 1.4(here).
Thank you Meltdown and NoDNA for finally cracking all the KHR-1 wireless issues.

Kondo just released H2H 1.4(here).
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Post by inaki » Fri May 19, 2006 2:03 pm

Post by inaki
Fri May 19, 2006 2:03 pm

Meltdown,
where do these adapters take the power from ?
Meltdown,
where do these adapters take the power from ?
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Post by Meltdown » Fri May 19, 2006 9:53 pm

Post by Meltdown
Fri May 19, 2006 9:53 pm

For clarity:
I have Bluetooth build in in the laptop i use.
But you can use every off he shelve BT usb plug if you don't have one build in.
On the KHR-1 side i use a Bluetooth serial rs232 adaptor.

On every BT serial rs232 adaptor i've seen (and mentioned in the list above)
there are several ways to power them.
Usually pin 9 of the rs232 plug can be used to feed +3.3v to 9v depending on manufacturer.
Pin 5 for Ground (-).
In my case i needed 5V.

I took the pins of the (in my case unused) low-speed serial I/O of the rcb-1 to power the BT module.
It turned out that this low-speed serial I/O has 5v output instead of the overall 6v you find on the rcb-1.
Perfect for my BT serial adaptor.

I took the BT serial adaptor out of it's casing and put the module
where normally the battery sits in the chest of KHR-1.
It's totally invisible now :-)

On a side note:
I power my robot with Lipo cells which put out 7.4v/3600mha.
Too much voltage for the rcb-1 and servos.
So i designed a mini converter/pcb which transforms 7.4v into 5.6v with 7.5amps capacity.

My KHR-1 gets it's power from two 7.4v Lipo cells (one in each foot) build into the feet of the robot.
One cell is used at a time.
When one cell is drained i can switch to the other cell.
The mini pcb power converter is also build into the feet.
Now you have to be very careful with Lipo cells.
These cells must NOT be drained under 6v (or 3v per cell).
That's why i added a pcb which lights a ultra bright led when reaching 6v.
All build into the feet.

And while we are at it ;-)
I also developed a mini pcb which is put onto the servo pins of the 2 RK2 gyros i have.
These pcb's can bypass the gyro completely though a switch while at the
same time the servos are routed directly to rcb-1.
It's as if the gyros aren't there anymore.
Flip the switch and the gyros are back again for action.
The reason is that i don't have to unplug the gyros anymore when i want to use teaching mode on those channels.
Normally you have to unplug them when you want to use teaching mode
which is a pain in the ..s.

And these are just a few mods of the countless improvements i made to the KHR-1.
It never ends.
For clarity:
I have Bluetooth build in in the laptop i use.
But you can use every off he shelve BT usb plug if you don't have one build in.
On the KHR-1 side i use a Bluetooth serial rs232 adaptor.

On every BT serial rs232 adaptor i've seen (and mentioned in the list above)
there are several ways to power them.
Usually pin 9 of the rs232 plug can be used to feed +3.3v to 9v depending on manufacturer.
Pin 5 for Ground (-).
In my case i needed 5V.

I took the pins of the (in my case unused) low-speed serial I/O of the rcb-1 to power the BT module.
It turned out that this low-speed serial I/O has 5v output instead of the overall 6v you find on the rcb-1.
Perfect for my BT serial adaptor.

I took the BT serial adaptor out of it's casing and put the module
where normally the battery sits in the chest of KHR-1.
It's totally invisible now :-)

On a side note:
I power my robot with Lipo cells which put out 7.4v/3600mha.
Too much voltage for the rcb-1 and servos.
So i designed a mini converter/pcb which transforms 7.4v into 5.6v with 7.5amps capacity.

My KHR-1 gets it's power from two 7.4v Lipo cells (one in each foot) build into the feet of the robot.
One cell is used at a time.
When one cell is drained i can switch to the other cell.
The mini pcb power converter is also build into the feet.
Now you have to be very careful with Lipo cells.
These cells must NOT be drained under 6v (or 3v per cell).
That's why i added a pcb which lights a ultra bright led when reaching 6v.
All build into the feet.

And while we are at it ;-)
I also developed a mini pcb which is put onto the servo pins of the 2 RK2 gyros i have.
These pcb's can bypass the gyro completely though a switch while at the
same time the servos are routed directly to rcb-1.
It's as if the gyros aren't there anymore.
Flip the switch and the gyros are back again for action.
The reason is that i don't have to unplug the gyros anymore when i want to use teaching mode on those channels.
Normally you have to unplug them when you want to use teaching mode
which is a pain in the ..s.

And these are just a few mods of the countless improvements i made to the KHR-1.
It never ends.
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Post by inaki » Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:00 pm

Post by inaki
Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:00 pm

Meltdown,

what do you think of this one:
http://www.lemosint.com/scripts/bluetoo ... class2.asp

It is pretty expensive, about $139. As a handy feature it comes with internal Li-Ion battery!
Meltdown,

what do you think of this one:
http://www.lemosint.com/scripts/bluetoo ... class2.asp

It is pretty expensive, about $139. As a handy feature it comes with internal Li-Ion battery!
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Post by Meltdown » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:56 am

Post by Meltdown
Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:56 am

That one will work just fine.
But why do you need the battery version?
You can tap into the power of the RCB-1 or another controller to power
the module.
Remember that you need a special charger for that li-ion.
If it's included than that's oke, but NEVER EVER charge
the li-ion or li-poly with a ni-cad or Nimh charger!
You won't believe what happens then. (personal experience with rc models)
The battery will catch fire with such brutal force and heat that it will
look like you made a napalm bomb.
Just look at this! http://www.rcstuff.us/battery/lipo/LipoFire.wmv
It's great fun ;-)
That one will work just fine.
But why do you need the battery version?
You can tap into the power of the RCB-1 or another controller to power
the module.
Remember that you need a special charger for that li-ion.
If it's included than that's oke, but NEVER EVER charge
the li-ion or li-poly with a ni-cad or Nimh charger!
You won't believe what happens then. (personal experience with rc models)
The battery will catch fire with such brutal force and heat that it will
look like you made a napalm bomb.
Just look at this! http://www.rcstuff.us/battery/lipo/LipoFire.wmv
It's great fun ;-)
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Re: Final Bluetooth solution for KHR-1

Post by ryann2k1 » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:58 am

Post by ryann2k1
Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:58 am

Meltdown wrote:You need:
One Bluetooth serial rs232 adapter (see below)
One ordinary Bluetooth usb stick or buetooth build into the computer.
Version 1.3 of the Heart2Heart software. (version 1.1 English WON'T work!)
http://www.nodna.com/fileadmin/download ... rt_1R3.rar

Some brands of BT rs232 adaptors to choose from:
1) Iogear GBS301(cheap on eBay)
2) Free2move F2M01
3) Socket cordless serial adaptor
4) Blueport

There are more for sure. Best is to choose class1 100m versions for both BT modules.

You even don't have to modify anything in the original rs232 plug if you get
a BT serial adaptor with a female rs232 plug and use a gender changer.
This may seem odd because you're tempted to buy a male one.
The reason is that when using one with a male plug you have to twist all the connections except for pin 5 (Ground)

The reason why it wouldn't work before was due to H2H version 1.1 English.
It clearly contains a bug found by fellow member noDNA (Thanks for that!)

Set both modules to work with 115.000 baud
That's it.


Hi Meltdown,

I have tried using Version 1.3 of the Heart2Heart software as you suggest, but I could not access channel 13 until channel 24.what would be the possible cause?

Thank you

Cheers,

ryann2k1
Meltdown wrote:You need:
One Bluetooth serial rs232 adapter (see below)
One ordinary Bluetooth usb stick or buetooth build into the computer.
Version 1.3 of the Heart2Heart software. (version 1.1 English WON'T work!)
http://www.nodna.com/fileadmin/download ... rt_1R3.rar

Some brands of BT rs232 adaptors to choose from:
1) Iogear GBS301(cheap on eBay)
2) Free2move F2M01
3) Socket cordless serial adaptor
4) Blueport

There are more for sure. Best is to choose class1 100m versions for both BT modules.

You even don't have to modify anything in the original rs232 plug if you get
a BT serial adaptor with a female rs232 plug and use a gender changer.
This may seem odd because you're tempted to buy a male one.
The reason is that when using one with a male plug you have to twist all the connections except for pin 5 (Ground)

The reason why it wouldn't work before was due to H2H version 1.1 English.
It clearly contains a bug found by fellow member noDNA (Thanks for that!)

Set both modules to work with 115.000 baud
That's it.


Hi Meltdown,

I have tried using Version 1.3 of the Heart2Heart software as you suggest, but I could not access channel 13 until channel 24.what would be the possible cause?

Thank you

Cheers,

ryann2k1
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Post by noDNA » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:15 pm

Post by noDNA
Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:15 pm

ryann2k1
seems you did not set the ID of the second board to 1

H2H does not know if you want to use 1 or two RCB-1 boards.
They have to been given different IDs so that H2H knows which one to assign channel 1-12 and which one 13-24,

kind regards
noDNA
ryann2k1
seems you did not set the ID of the second board to 1

H2H does not know if you want to use 1 or two RCB-1 boards.
They have to been given different IDs so that H2H knows which one to assign channel 1-12 and which one 13-24,

kind regards
noDNA
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H2H

Post by ryann2k1 » Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:07 am

Post by ryann2k1
Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:07 am

I have already set the ID to 1 and the original H2H in the CD (in Japanese) is working well. Do I have to reset the IDs of the boards for any different H2H window?
Thanks a lot.

cheers,

ryann2k1
I have already set the ID to 1 and the original H2H in the CD (in Japanese) is working well. Do I have to reset the IDs of the boards for any different H2H window?
Thanks a lot.

cheers,

ryann2k1
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Post by noDNA » Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:07 am

Post by noDNA
Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:07 am

Actually I do not know by heart. H2H is generating a .ini file in the same directory where the .exe is (this is why it does not work from CD). I do not know if the ID settings are stored in the .ini file. You can open the .ini file with a standard editor.

Anyway, here is a standalone ID Set utility for RCB1. Perhaps this helps.
http://www.nodna.com/Kondo.397.0.html

regards
noDNA
Actually I do not know by heart. H2H is generating a .ini file in the same directory where the .exe is (this is why it does not work from CD). I do not know if the ID settings are stored in the .ini file. You can open the .ini file with a standard editor.

Anyway, here is a standalone ID Set utility for RCB1. Perhaps this helps.
http://www.nodna.com/Kondo.397.0.html

regards
noDNA
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Bluetooth

Post by ryann2k1 » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:10 am

Post by ryann2k1
Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:10 am

Hi noDNA,
Thanks a lot for the link.
I just want to add something that after setting the ID using RCB-ID software, I have to set ID board to 1 in the H2H.( The latest addition of H2H)will not detect automatically, it must be set by the user).


Cheers,

ryann2k1
Hi noDNA,
Thanks a lot for the link.
I just want to add something that after setting the ID using RCB-ID software, I have to set ID board to 1 in the H2H.( The latest addition of H2H)will not detect automatically, it must be set by the user).


Cheers,

ryann2k1
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Re: Final Bluetooth solution for KHR-1

Post by BrianG » Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:17 am

Post by BrianG
Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:17 am

Meltdown wrote:You need:
One Bluetooth serial rs232 adapter (see below)
One ordinary Bluetooth usb stick or buetooth build into the computer.
Version 1.3 of the Heart2Heart software. (version 1.1 English WON'T work!)
http://www.nodna.com/fileadmin/download ... rt_1R3.rar

Some brands of BT rs232 adaptors to choose from:
1) Iogear GBS301(cheap on eBay)
2) Free2move F2M01
3) Socket cordless serial adaptor
4) Blueport

There are more for sure. Best is to choose class1 100m versions for both BT modules.

You even don't have to modify anything in the original rs232 plug if you get
a BT serial adaptor with a female rs232 plug and use a gender changer.
This may seem odd because you're tempted to buy a male one.
The reason is that when using one with a male plug you have to twist all the connections except for pin 5 (Ground)

The reason why it wouldn't work before was due to H2H version 1.1 English.
It clearly contains a bug found by fellow member noDNA (Thanks for that!)

Set both modules to work with 115.000 baud
That's it.


I wonder why the need for a gender changer?

If the Bluetooth adapter was male or female aren't we just feeding it +5 and ground then figuring out the RX and TX lines to then connect to the RCB board?
Meltdown wrote:You need:
One Bluetooth serial rs232 adapter (see below)
One ordinary Bluetooth usb stick or buetooth build into the computer.
Version 1.3 of the Heart2Heart software. (version 1.1 English WON'T work!)
http://www.nodna.com/fileadmin/download ... rt_1R3.rar

Some brands of BT rs232 adaptors to choose from:
1) Iogear GBS301(cheap on eBay)
2) Free2move F2M01
3) Socket cordless serial adaptor
4) Blueport

There are more for sure. Best is to choose class1 100m versions for both BT modules.

You even don't have to modify anything in the original rs232 plug if you get
a BT serial adaptor with a female rs232 plug and use a gender changer.
This may seem odd because you're tempted to buy a male one.
The reason is that when using one with a male plug you have to twist all the connections except for pin 5 (Ground)

The reason why it wouldn't work before was due to H2H version 1.1 English.
It clearly contains a bug found by fellow member noDNA (Thanks for that!)

Set both modules to work with 115.000 baud
That's it.


I wonder why the need for a gender changer?

If the Bluetooth adapter was male or female aren't we just feeding it +5 and ground then figuring out the RX and TX lines to then connect to the RCB board?
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Post by Robo1 » Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:41 am

Post by Robo1
Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:41 am

Hi Brain G

If you have a HV model then it's not a straight job of plugging in a RX/TX connection. I started to integrate a wiport but before I finished I decided to the RCB and go the gumstix route. IF I remember correctly when I plugged it into a oscilloscope the two lines had different voltages or inverted or something that wasn't straight forward.

Bren
Hi Brain G

If you have a HV model then it's not a straight job of plugging in a RX/TX connection. I started to integrate a wiport but before I finished I decided to the RCB and go the gumstix route. IF I remember correctly when I plugged it into a oscilloscope the two lines had different voltages or inverted or something that wasn't straight forward.

Bren
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Post by Meltdown » Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:04 am

Post by Meltdown
Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:04 am

Robo1,

I have no problems whatsoever with the RCB3-hv and my serial bluetooth setup.
It's a strait setup for me and it's working fine.
All is working even better now since i've upgraded my RCB1 to RCB3 and using HtH3J.
With HtH1 there was sometimes the data lag problem others talked about.
With above setup these problems are gone.

Important is that the baudrate is set to 115000B
Other settings won't work!
Another thing is to use the same standard (class) on both bluetooth modules.


BrianG,

The gender changer was for RCB1 to work with the ics cable.
This thread was started when the KHR1 was the most used robot.
For RCB3(J) this is not important anymore.

To answer your pm.
No problem sending data to the board and receiving data from it.
Works every time i do this.
Commands are performed near realtime with no delay present that i can detect.
So i hit play and the action is performed instantly without delay.

I think it's very important what serial bluetooth adapter and what usb bluetooth adapter is being used.
I know that some will doubt me but my system is working 100% perfect.

I have a 100 meter class adapter and i have tested my robot with a distance of 50m.
Worked perfectly every time.
The adapter comes with a 19.200 baud setting that won't work with the robot.
It has to be changed to 115.000B with the help of a terminal program.
The adapter can be configured entirely with a normal terminal program.
I use this adapter with CSR chipset on the robot side (scroll down for a picture and specs)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... B:AAQ:US:1

And this one on the computer side:
Belkin USB Bluetooth Adapter
Model FBT012

HTHJ on my computer has to be set at Com5 to work.
Robo1,

I have no problems whatsoever with the RCB3-hv and my serial bluetooth setup.
It's a strait setup for me and it's working fine.
All is working even better now since i've upgraded my RCB1 to RCB3 and using HtH3J.
With HtH1 there was sometimes the data lag problem others talked about.
With above setup these problems are gone.

Important is that the baudrate is set to 115000B
Other settings won't work!
Another thing is to use the same standard (class) on both bluetooth modules.


BrianG,

The gender changer was for RCB1 to work with the ics cable.
This thread was started when the KHR1 was the most used robot.
For RCB3(J) this is not important anymore.

To answer your pm.
No problem sending data to the board and receiving data from it.
Works every time i do this.
Commands are performed near realtime with no delay present that i can detect.
So i hit play and the action is performed instantly without delay.

I think it's very important what serial bluetooth adapter and what usb bluetooth adapter is being used.
I know that some will doubt me but my system is working 100% perfect.

I have a 100 meter class adapter and i have tested my robot with a distance of 50m.
Worked perfectly every time.
The adapter comes with a 19.200 baud setting that won't work with the robot.
It has to be changed to 115.000B with the help of a terminal program.
The adapter can be configured entirely with a normal terminal program.
I use this adapter with CSR chipset on the robot side (scroll down for a picture and specs)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... B:AAQ:US:1

And this one on the computer side:
Belkin USB Bluetooth Adapter
Model FBT012

HTHJ on my computer has to be set at Com5 to work.
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Post by jackwk » Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:16 am

Post by jackwk
Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:16 am

Hi Meltdown

How to connect the serial terminal of the RCB-3J to the 9 pin Bluetooth serial rs232 adapter?
Could I connect them as follow?

"Signal pin" of RCB to "Received data" pin of bluetooth adapter
"ground" pin of RCB to "signal ground" of bluetooth adapter
"power" pin to a power supply

Do I need to connect the remaining pins of the bluetooth adapter with jumper, or leave them disconnected?

Thank you

Regards,
jackwk
Hi Meltdown

How to connect the serial terminal of the RCB-3J to the 9 pin Bluetooth serial rs232 adapter?
Could I connect them as follow?

"Signal pin" of RCB to "Received data" pin of bluetooth adapter
"ground" pin of RCB to "signal ground" of bluetooth adapter
"power" pin to a power supply

Do I need to connect the remaining pins of the bluetooth adapter with jumper, or leave them disconnected?

Thank you

Regards,
jackwk
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