eBox 3350MX Compact PC Teardown & Review

Based on DMP's Vortex processor / SoC this board is a full computer capable of running a standard Windows and Linux installation on the backpack of your robot.
86 postsPage 5 of 61, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
86 postsPage 5 of 61, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

Post by PedroR » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:31 pm

Post by PedroR
Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:31 pm

Hi ozzfiddler

I think the reason why the program is crashing using OpenCV 2 is due to the processor specific optimizations.

I know that the very early versions of OpenCV do not take advantage of instructions like SSE (which don't exist in eBox products).
These isntructions were later introduced and used in future versions of 1.XX

In OpenCV 2.xx I know some changes were made so that it determines which instructions are available on the platform you're compiling on, and the code will only be compiled using available instructions.

I think what you're seeing is code being compiled to use SSE and SSE2 and when you move it to the eBox it fails because those instructions are not available.

I am in no way an expert in OpenCV but I recal reading something about this when we compiled it on our eBox because we were aware of these limitations.

Regards
Pedro.
Hi ozzfiddler

I think the reason why the program is crashing using OpenCV 2 is due to the processor specific optimizations.

I know that the very early versions of OpenCV do not take advantage of instructions like SSE (which don't exist in eBox products).
These isntructions were later introduced and used in future versions of 1.XX

In OpenCV 2.xx I know some changes were made so that it determines which instructions are available on the platform you're compiling on, and the code will only be compiled using available instructions.

I think what you're seeing is code being compiled to use SSE and SSE2 and when you move it to the eBox it fails because those instructions are not available.

I am in no way an expert in OpenCV but I recal reading something about this when we compiled it on our eBox because we were aware of these limitations.

Regards
Pedro.
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Post by ozfiddler » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:28 pm

Post by ozfiddler
Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:28 pm

Ah yes - there's something in the Roboard/OpenCV sticky about that. Oh well, hopefully I can just have some fun with OpenCV 1.0.

Can you give me some advice. I know nothing about C++ (or anything else much really!) and I suppose I need to send commands to the servos via a USB servo controller. I see you sell 3 models:

DFRobot - USBSSC32 32 Servo Controller USB

Inex - 16 Servo Controller Board with USB and TTL interface

SparkFun - Micro Maestro 6-channel USB Servo Controller

Will they all do the job, or is there one more suitable?

Cheers,

Alan
Ah yes - there's something in the Roboard/OpenCV sticky about that. Oh well, hopefully I can just have some fun with OpenCV 1.0.

Can you give me some advice. I know nothing about C++ (or anything else much really!) and I suppose I need to send commands to the servos via a USB servo controller. I see you sell 3 models:

DFRobot - USBSSC32 32 Servo Controller USB

Inex - 16 Servo Controller Board with USB and TTL interface

SparkFun - Micro Maestro 6-channel USB Servo Controller

Will they all do the job, or is there one more suitable?

Cheers,

Alan
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Post by PedroR » Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:26 am

Post by PedroR
Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:26 am

Hi ozzfiddler

The ones we sell most are models from Inex and from DFRobot.

I am particularly familiar with the Inex model although I believe the one from DFRobot is quite similar.

What these controllers do is this:
- You connect the servos to the controller
- Connect the controller via USB
- The controller will show up in your computer as serial port.

All you need to do is send ASCII commands (ie a series of characters) through that COMM port to control the servos.
The boards understand a very simple protocol: you send a sequence os numbers a letters to tell it which servo to move, to which position and how fast.

I myself don't have much knowledge of C++ either but I'm sure that if you Google around about how to talk to the COMM port you'll be able to find some sample code and go from there.

Additionally on the product pages for the Servo controllers you can download or find links to the user manuals and you'll be able to learn more about the protocol and how it works.
It's really simple.

With regards to the Pan & Tilt Mechanism I don't if you've select one already but a very popular one we have is the DAGU http://robosavvy.com/store/product_info ... ts_id/1182

Regards
Pedro.
Hi ozzfiddler

The ones we sell most are models from Inex and from DFRobot.

I am particularly familiar with the Inex model although I believe the one from DFRobot is quite similar.

What these controllers do is this:
- You connect the servos to the controller
- Connect the controller via USB
- The controller will show up in your computer as serial port.

All you need to do is send ASCII commands (ie a series of characters) through that COMM port to control the servos.
The boards understand a very simple protocol: you send a sequence os numbers a letters to tell it which servo to move, to which position and how fast.

I myself don't have much knowledge of C++ either but I'm sure that if you Google around about how to talk to the COMM port you'll be able to find some sample code and go from there.

Additionally on the product pages for the Servo controllers you can download or find links to the user manuals and you'll be able to learn more about the protocol and how it works.
It's really simple.

With regards to the Pan & Tilt Mechanism I don't if you've select one already but a very popular one we have is the DAGU http://robosavvy.com/store/product_info ... ts_id/1182

Regards
Pedro.
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Post by ozfiddler » Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:00 am

Post by ozfiddler
Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:00 am

Thanks Pedro - that's great. I'll go ahead and order one of those 2 you mentioned.

By the way, I just did a more carefully timed battery test with the eBox and my portable power supply and it was much better this time. Basically I was just doing stuff on the internet so only had the wireless USB working and it lasted me for 3 1/2 hours. Maybe it needed a few charge/discharge cycles to get it up to full potential. Anyway I think that is much more consistent with the stated 4000mAh.

Actually I spent the whole 3 1/2 hours trying to get a version of Java SDK working with no success. Any ideas which version will work with the eBox? All the ones I tried seemed to crash or freeze up in loading.
Thanks Pedro - that's great. I'll go ahead and order one of those 2 you mentioned.

By the way, I just did a more carefully timed battery test with the eBox and my portable power supply and it was much better this time. Basically I was just doing stuff on the internet so only had the wireless USB working and it lasted me for 3 1/2 hours. Maybe it needed a few charge/discharge cycles to get it up to full potential. Anyway I think that is much more consistent with the stated 4000mAh.

Actually I spent the whole 3 1/2 hours trying to get a version of Java SDK working with no success. Any ideas which version will work with the eBox? All the ones I tried seemed to crash or freeze up in loading.
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Post by PedroR » Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:15 am

Post by PedroR
Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:15 am

Hi ozzfiddler

I recall there was a discussion about this a while back on this forum and the thread is here http://robosavvy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7148

The solution is to use a version of JAVA for i586. If you read through the thread you should find the exact version and information you need.
(the thread recommends Java 6 Update 22; however my investigations on the JAVA Archive, seem to show the latest Update 26 also seems to have a version for i586; I didn't test it though)

Thanks for the update on the battery duration. 3h30 sounds very good. We ordered a unit for our office for testing and see if maybe we can offer it as an accessory for eBox (fyi we're finally getting proper 5V 2A USB power adapters to offer as an eBox 3350 accessory in a couple of weeks!)

Regards
Pedro.
Hi ozzfiddler

I recall there was a discussion about this a while back on this forum and the thread is here http://robosavvy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7148

The solution is to use a version of JAVA for i586. If you read through the thread you should find the exact version and information you need.
(the thread recommends Java 6 Update 22; however my investigations on the JAVA Archive, seem to show the latest Update 26 also seems to have a version for i586; I didn't test it though)

Thanks for the update on the battery duration. 3h30 sounds very good. We ordered a unit for our office for testing and see if maybe we can offer it as an accessory for eBox (fyi we're finally getting proper 5V 2A USB power adapters to offer as an eBox 3350 accessory in a couple of weeks!)

Regards
Pedro.
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Post by bmc » Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:33 am

Post by bmc
Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:33 am

Pedro,

Could you possibly help me out with any of the questions I posed in my last post? I'm particularly interested in knowing whether you've managed to get audio working on your ebox and video of any level of quality whatsoever?

Thanks.
Pedro,

Could you possibly help me out with any of the questions I posed in my last post? I'm particularly interested in knowing whether you've managed to get audio working on your ebox and video of any level of quality whatsoever?

Thanks.
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Post by PedroR » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:51 pm

Post by PedroR
Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:51 pm

Hi bmc

I seem to have missed your post.

To answer your questions:
- Recommended Filesystems for eBox running form SD card, you should check this forum for the related post http://robosavvy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7408.
These are tips and tricks for optimizing FS performance under the very specific case of using an SD card as hdd.
Still all file systems should work fine on eBox.

- on boot I get the message: cpu vendor_id "vortex86 soc" unknown using generic init. The ebox boots fine.
Again if you refer to the post on this forum about installation of Linux on eBox machines - http://robosavvy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7482 -, it mentions it is normal to see warnings on boot but these can be safely ignored.

- I also have the bios revision A63 - this is newer than A61.
I'm don't know which are the differences.
For now we're only mirroring A61 for people who have outdated BIOSes. Our policy for BIOS updates is: if it works, stick with it.
The role of the BIOS on eBoxes is very basic so if it works, you should be fine.

- The Video card built onto the Vortex86MX SoC does not support 3D Acceleration.
You can try installing the DMP video drivers following the instructions here http://robosavvy.com/RoboSavvyPages/DMP ... ex86MX.zip

We haven't tried the driver ourselves but we received different reports from users about this: we've heard the DMP driver is still VESA based and thus won't offer significant performance improvement; another user has mentioned the VGA driver code seems to have some optimizations for 2D acceleration.
However from experimenting and user reports, video playback as well as streaming are not at all fluent on eBox. This also due to the absence of specific multimedia instructions such as SSE/SSE2/SSE3 on Vortex86MX processors.

- We didn't actually come to connecting a Sound device to the eBox. However in our installation (after installing kernel 2.6.34.10 as we recommend), the sound system on Ubuntu shows up properly and so far what we've done was adjust sound and play some Youtube videos (without any sound output device connected so we didn't really check sound output).
My only recommendation here is to install the latest kernel we recommend: 2.6.34.10 following the instructions here http://robosavvy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7482

Regards
Pedro
Hi bmc

I seem to have missed your post.

To answer your questions:
- Recommended Filesystems for eBox running form SD card, you should check this forum for the related post http://robosavvy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7408.
These are tips and tricks for optimizing FS performance under the very specific case of using an SD card as hdd.
Still all file systems should work fine on eBox.

- on boot I get the message: cpu vendor_id "vortex86 soc" unknown using generic init. The ebox boots fine.
Again if you refer to the post on this forum about installation of Linux on eBox machines - http://robosavvy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7482 -, it mentions it is normal to see warnings on boot but these can be safely ignored.

- I also have the bios revision A63 - this is newer than A61.
I'm don't know which are the differences.
For now we're only mirroring A61 for people who have outdated BIOSes. Our policy for BIOS updates is: if it works, stick with it.
The role of the BIOS on eBoxes is very basic so if it works, you should be fine.

- The Video card built onto the Vortex86MX SoC does not support 3D Acceleration.
You can try installing the DMP video drivers following the instructions here http://robosavvy.com/RoboSavvyPages/DMP ... ex86MX.zip

We haven't tried the driver ourselves but we received different reports from users about this: we've heard the DMP driver is still VESA based and thus won't offer significant performance improvement; another user has mentioned the VGA driver code seems to have some optimizations for 2D acceleration.
However from experimenting and user reports, video playback as well as streaming are not at all fluent on eBox. This also due to the absence of specific multimedia instructions such as SSE/SSE2/SSE3 on Vortex86MX processors.

- We didn't actually come to connecting a Sound device to the eBox. However in our installation (after installing kernel 2.6.34.10 as we recommend), the sound system on Ubuntu shows up properly and so far what we've done was adjust sound and play some Youtube videos (without any sound output device connected so we didn't really check sound output).
My only recommendation here is to install the latest kernel we recommend: 2.6.34.10 following the instructions here http://robosavvy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7482

Regards
Pedro
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Post by bmc » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:01 pm

Post by bmc
Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:01 pm

Hi Pedro,

Thanks for the response and thanks for the links. When you say you watched some youtube videos, did they play properly for you? For me they are extremely jerky (unwatchable).

I have the recommended 2.6.34.10 kernel installed but sound doesn't work, I'd be interested to know whether it does for you if you ever had a chance to plug in some headphones and report back I'd appreciate it. Although the fact that the sound system shows up properly for you is a major difference, I can't think what the solution might be though. The only thing different between my system and yours it seems is the filesystem and I wouldn't expect that to be the cause. I have some spare SD cards, so #I'll experiment with some different install configurations.
Hi Pedro,

Thanks for the response and thanks for the links. When you say you watched some youtube videos, did they play properly for you? For me they are extremely jerky (unwatchable).

I have the recommended 2.6.34.10 kernel installed but sound doesn't work, I'd be interested to know whether it does for you if you ever had a chance to plug in some headphones and report back I'd appreciate it. Although the fact that the sound system shows up properly for you is a major difference, I can't think what the solution might be though. The only thing different between my system and yours it seems is the filesystem and I wouldn't expect that to be the cause. I have some spare SD cards, so #I'll experiment with some different install configurations.
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Post by PedroR » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:38 pm

Post by PedroR
Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:38 pm

Hi bmc

As I mentioned before we haven't had a chance to plug some headphones in so we haven't actually tested sound output.
However so far we have sold a very large number of units and none of the customers has raised any issue with sound so I trsut this would be related to your setup.

I would recommend opening a command prompt and typing "uname -r" to confirm Ubuntu is loading the correct kernel version.
You can also try reinstalling the kernel. Installation isntructions can be found here http://robosavvy.com/RoboSavvyPages/DMP ... NSTALL.htm

With regards to watching Youtube videos we were only able to get 4 fps which is quite slow.
That's in line with reports from other users: the eBox is not great at for multimedia tasks due to the fact that it doesn't have SSE - this has been already discussed extensively.

We haven't tested multimedia performance on the 3310MX (with Vortex86MX+) but we know from benchmark reports that doubling the memory bandwidth has resulted in a very positive overall improvement.

Regards
Pedro
Hi bmc

As I mentioned before we haven't had a chance to plug some headphones in so we haven't actually tested sound output.
However so far we have sold a very large number of units and none of the customers has raised any issue with sound so I trsut this would be related to your setup.

I would recommend opening a command prompt and typing "uname -r" to confirm Ubuntu is loading the correct kernel version.
You can also try reinstalling the kernel. Installation isntructions can be found here http://robosavvy.com/RoboSavvyPages/DMP ... NSTALL.htm

With regards to watching Youtube videos we were only able to get 4 fps which is quite slow.
That's in line with reports from other users: the eBox is not great at for multimedia tasks due to the fact that it doesn't have SSE - this has been already discussed extensively.

We haven't tested multimedia performance on the 3310MX (with Vortex86MX+) but we know from benchmark reports that doubling the memory bandwidth has resulted in a very positive overall improvement.

Regards
Pedro
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Post by PedroR » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:42 pm

Post by PedroR
Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:42 pm

Hi all

We'd like to let you know that we finally got a hold of some Official power Adapters for the eBox 3350MX.

These are 5V 2A miniUSB adapters supplied by DMP for use with the 3350MX.

As many of you may have experienced, the eBox works with a good smartphone charger but if you want to make full use of all 3 USB ports you really need an adapter capable of delivering the full 2A (500mA for the eBox + 3x 500mA for each USB peripheral).
If the power draw is more than the adapter can handle, you may experience random symptoms such as rebooting, no VGA or inability to boot.

It hasn't been easy to get a hold of a good 5V 2A adapter but we can assure these are perfectly up to the task and will keep your eBox running smoothly under any (heavy) load :) (after all they come from the manufacturer of eBox).

The adapter is available from our store here http://robosavvy.com/store/product_info ... ts_id/1904

Regards
Pedro
Hi all

We'd like to let you know that we finally got a hold of some Official power Adapters for the eBox 3350MX.

These are 5V 2A miniUSB adapters supplied by DMP for use with the 3350MX.

As many of you may have experienced, the eBox works with a good smartphone charger but if you want to make full use of all 3 USB ports you really need an adapter capable of delivering the full 2A (500mA for the eBox + 3x 500mA for each USB peripheral).
If the power draw is more than the adapter can handle, you may experience random symptoms such as rebooting, no VGA or inability to boot.

It hasn't been easy to get a hold of a good 5V 2A adapter but we can assure these are perfectly up to the task and will keep your eBox running smoothly under any (heavy) load :) (after all they come from the manufacturer of eBox).

The adapter is available from our store here http://robosavvy.com/store/product_info ... ts_id/1904

Regards
Pedro
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Post by siempre.aprendiendo » Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:36 pm

Post by siempre.aprendiendo
Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:36 pm

Updated:

Voltaic v39 seems better than Primo for the same price $99 (I have read some reviews with concerns about the quality of Primo Power):
Image

Battery Specifications
Output: 5.5V, 600 mA and 5V, 2A (two output ports)
Input: 5-12V, up to 2A
Maximum Output Power: 10 Watts
Output Capacity: 11,600 mAh

Charge Time: From 8 Watts solar in 10 hours direct sun, 2A USB Port 5-6 hours
Battery Type: Lithium Polymer
Protection: Short Circuit, Over Charge, Over Discharge, Over Current, Over Temperature

Weight: 10.5 Oz (300g)
Dimensions: 4" x 4 1/4" x 3/4" (104 x 107 x 19 mm)
Charge Display: LEDs light sequentially when charging .
Capacity Display: 1 light < 25%, 2 lights < 50%, 3 lights <75> 75% full


siempre.aprendiendo wrote:Searching an easy way to power it I have find these external batteries:

Primo Power Core
Primo Power Core Specifcations

Model Number: PRIMO-CORE-SP
Battery Capacity: 8200 mAh
Power Output: DC 5V@2.1A, 12V@2A
Power Input: DC 9V@1A
AC Adapter: 100v to 240v AC Adapter. USA, UK and EU outlet types available.
Dimensions: L 130mm x W 75mm x 18mm
Weight: 233 g / 8.2 oz



"DealExtreme"

- Capacity: 4000mAh
- Input: 5V/1A
- Output: 5V/2A
- Comes with USB cable & USB male to female adapter cable
- Item: 4000mAh Rechargeable External Battery with USB Cable - White
- Dimensions: 4.29 in x 2.32 in x 0.67 in (10.9 cm x 5.9 cm x 1.7 cm)
- Weight: 3.99 oz (113 g)
Updated:

Voltaic v39 seems better than Primo for the same price $99 (I have read some reviews with concerns about the quality of Primo Power):
Image

Battery Specifications
Output: 5.5V, 600 mA and 5V, 2A (two output ports)
Input: 5-12V, up to 2A
Maximum Output Power: 10 Watts
Output Capacity: 11,600 mAh

Charge Time: From 8 Watts solar in 10 hours direct sun, 2A USB Port 5-6 hours
Battery Type: Lithium Polymer
Protection: Short Circuit, Over Charge, Over Discharge, Over Current, Over Temperature

Weight: 10.5 Oz (300g)
Dimensions: 4" x 4 1/4" x 3/4" (104 x 107 x 19 mm)
Charge Display: LEDs light sequentially when charging .
Capacity Display: 1 light < 25%, 2 lights < 50%, 3 lights <75> 75% full


siempre.aprendiendo wrote:Searching an easy way to power it I have find these external batteries:

Primo Power Core
Primo Power Core Specifcations

Model Number: PRIMO-CORE-SP
Battery Capacity: 8200 mAh
Power Output: DC 5V@2.1A, 12V@2A
Power Input: DC 9V@1A
AC Adapter: 100v to 240v AC Adapter. USA, UK and EU outlet types available.
Dimensions: L 130mm x W 75mm x 18mm
Weight: 233 g / 8.2 oz



"DealExtreme"

- Capacity: 4000mAh
- Input: 5V/1A
- Output: 5V/2A
- Comes with USB cable & USB male to female adapter cable
- Item: 4000mAh Rechargeable External Battery with USB Cable - White
- Dimensions: 4.29 in x 2.32 in x 0.67 in (10.9 cm x 5.9 cm x 1.7 cm)
- Weight: 3.99 oz (113 g)
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how to moving ax-12 with rb-110

Post by katze » Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:57 pm

Post by katze
Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:57 pm

hi ..
anyone can help me how to drive the servo ax-12 using rb-110 ..
I've downloaded a sample program in www.roboard.com
but when i run the program in visual studio 2008 and then display an error winIO.dll not find me using winxp ..

how the steps to start a program in visual studio 2008, and anything what I need it if I had to download a sample program in www.roboard.com

thanks..
hi ..
anyone can help me how to drive the servo ax-12 using rb-110 ..
I've downloaded a sample program in www.roboard.com
but when i run the program in visual studio 2008 and then display an error winIO.dll not find me using winxp ..

how the steps to start a program in visual studio 2008, and anything what I need it if I had to download a sample program in www.roboard.com

thanks..
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Post by PedroR » Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:29 pm

Post by PedroR
Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:29 pm

Hi Katze

I recommend you create a separate Thread on the Roboard forum as this thread is mainly aimed at teardown, review and updates for the Box machine in genral.

Your question is specific to the RoboIO library (and Roboard) which is NOT related to eBox, the product discussed in this thread.

Regards
Pedro.
Hi Katze

I recommend you create a separate Thread on the Roboard forum as this thread is mainly aimed at teardown, review and updates for the Box machine in genral.

Your question is specific to the RoboIO library (and Roboard) which is NOT related to eBox, the product discussed in this thread.

Regards
Pedro.
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Post by nepotech » Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:28 am

Post by nepotech
Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:28 am

Help me...

I have problem with my ebox 3350MX. It is connecting external wifi with ebox 3350. Ever i connect my external wifi with my ebox 3350MX, then to install my wifi driver, my ebox is restarting. I use XPsp3, and USB wifi adapter Edimax EW-7811Un.

Thanks...
Help me...

I have problem with my ebox 3350MX. It is connecting external wifi with ebox 3350. Ever i connect my external wifi with my ebox 3350MX, then to install my wifi driver, my ebox is restarting. I use XPsp3, and USB wifi adapter Edimax EW-7811Un.

Thanks...
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Post by Liya08 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:13 am

Post by Liya08
Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:13 am

A bit more progress... I now have a Netcomm Wireless N150 USB adapter working to connect the eBox to my network.

Thanks for the tip re charger - will look out for an ipad 2 one.
A bit more progress... I now have a Netcomm Wireless N150 USB adapter working to connect the eBox to my network.

Thanks for the tip re charger - will look out for an ipad 2 one.
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