best roboad OS!?

Based on DMP's Vortex processor / SoC this board is a full computer capable of running a standard Windows and Linux installation on the backpack of your robot.
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best roboad OS!?

Post by robaldo » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:31 pm

Post by robaldo
Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:31 pm

Hi all
what is the best OS for a robard?
i have installed Windows on it!
but i can't get more than 9 frames per second!
i want to use it on a bioloid humanoid robot!
Hi all
what is the best OS for a robard?
i have installed Windows on it!
but i can't get more than 9 frames per second!
i want to use it on a bioloid humanoid robot!
Last edited by robaldo on Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by RoboFlop » Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:19 am

Post by RoboFlop
Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:19 am

I'd be very interested in comments on this topic too...

After a few failed attempts I finally got a version of WinXP pro running on my RB100. I used nlite to install from a USB stick.

I dont know if I can get my head around using linux and a different IDE like gcc to code in, could take some time to get things moving but maybe I'll bite the bullet if someoneone highly recommends a linux install.

What options (if any) are there to install a real-time OS using XP or a version of it, as this would seem to be a substantial advantage to using a linux install.

How far have you got Robaldo?
I'd be very interested in comments on this topic too...

After a few failed attempts I finally got a version of WinXP pro running on my RB100. I used nlite to install from a USB stick.

I dont know if I can get my head around using linux and a different IDE like gcc to code in, could take some time to get things moving but maybe I'll bite the bullet if someoneone highly recommends a linux install.

What options (if any) are there to install a real-time OS using XP or a version of it, as this would seem to be a substantial advantage to using a linux install.

How far have you got Robaldo?
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Post by SK » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:18 am

Post by SK
Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:18 am

You might want to have a look at this thread:
http://robosavvy.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2&start=15
There's some (short) talk about the possibilities of a realtime OS there. I don't think you'll be able to beat the "sudo apt-get install linux-rt" command line in Ubuntu for getting a real-time OS using Windows (on the contrary, AFAIK there is no such thing as a freely available realtime system using Windows).

Another thread specifically about the Roboard can be found here:
http://robosavvy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6612

Concerning the choice of Windows vs. Linux: The software for our Humanoid (http://www.dribblers.de/) and Rescue (http://www.gkmm.tu-darmstadt.de/rescue/) teams is completely platform independent, so I have the choice to use either Windows or Linux. I have a dual boot configuration, so that's not a problem. I didn't boot into Windows once for development since I installed Ubuntu, because the latter is much more convenient and fast to use.
You might want to have a look at this thread:
http://robosavvy.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2&start=15
There's some (short) talk about the possibilities of a realtime OS there. I don't think you'll be able to beat the "sudo apt-get install linux-rt" command line in Ubuntu for getting a real-time OS using Windows (on the contrary, AFAIK there is no such thing as a freely available realtime system using Windows).

Another thread specifically about the Roboard can be found here:
http://robosavvy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6612

Concerning the choice of Windows vs. Linux: The software for our Humanoid (http://www.dribblers.de/) and Rescue (http://www.gkmm.tu-darmstadt.de/rescue/) teams is completely platform independent, so I have the choice to use either Windows or Linux. I have a dual boot configuration, so that's not a problem. I didn't boot into Windows once for development since I installed Ubuntu, because the latter is much more convenient and fast to use.
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Post by robaldo » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:43 pm

Post by robaldo
Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:43 pm

RoboFlop wrote:How far have you got Robaldo?

i just had used Windows!
it was good, the only problem is the FPS(7-9 fps) of my camera (logitech) in 640 * 480!
but in 320 * 240 mode it's realtime, but i need 640 * 480!

i wonder if any body helps me on this!

SK wrote:Concerning the choice of Windows vs. Linux: The software for our Humanoid (http://www.dribblers.de/) and Rescue (http://www.gkmm.tu-darmstadt.de/rescue/) teams is completely platform independent, so I have the choice to use either Windows or Linux. I have a dual boot configuration, so that's not a problem. I didn't boot into Windows once for development since I installed Ubuntu, because the latter is much more convenient and fast to use.


that's really excellent!
but my problem now is just with vision , i explained before!

due to your experiences, what would you offer to use?! Windows or Linux? I'm a bit familiar with linux!

what Linux distribution do you use on your robots?
does it have any interface like gnome/kde/xfce and so on? or you just work on Linux kernel?
also i need to know what processor you use on your robots?! Roboard or some other boards?
thanks
RoboFlop wrote:How far have you got Robaldo?

i just had used Windows!
it was good, the only problem is the FPS(7-9 fps) of my camera (logitech) in 640 * 480!
but in 320 * 240 mode it's realtime, but i need 640 * 480!

i wonder if any body helps me on this!

SK wrote:Concerning the choice of Windows vs. Linux: The software for our Humanoid (http://www.dribblers.de/) and Rescue (http://www.gkmm.tu-darmstadt.de/rescue/) teams is completely platform independent, so I have the choice to use either Windows or Linux. I have a dual boot configuration, so that's not a problem. I didn't boot into Windows once for development since I installed Ubuntu, because the latter is much more convenient and fast to use.


that's really excellent!
but my problem now is just with vision , i explained before!

due to your experiences, what would you offer to use?! Windows or Linux? I'm a bit familiar with linux!

what Linux distribution do you use on your robots?
does it have any interface like gnome/kde/xfce and so on? or you just work on Linux kernel?
also i need to know what processor you use on your robots?! Roboard or some other boards?
thanks
Last edited by robaldo on Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by SK » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:19 pm

Post by SK
Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:19 pm

In ancient times we had a Pocket PC with Windows CE running on our humanoid robots, then in 2008 and 2009 we used Linux and a Geode LX800 (500MHz) based board and starting 2009/2010 we now use a FitPC2 with a Atom Z530 CPU.

Our humanoid robots are currently running a Voyage Linux version (http://linux.voyage.hk/). I guess a stripped down Ubuntu would also work well. Currently, the whole cognition process (image processing, world modeling, behavior/planning) runs at camera framerate of 30Hz (640x480 YUV422 images). Of course, the Atom is quite a bit more powerful than the Roboard.
Code can be compiled for different architectures (and even OSes), so I compile it for 64Bit Ubuntu on my computer and can test stuff using simulation. For use on the robot it gets compiled using the right compiler options for the Atom CPU.
I use QtCreator as an IDE, it is very lightweight, fast and user friendly. IMHO much better than the relatively sluggish VS2008 for example.

I'm not familiar with details of the Roboard (e.g. which Linux versions are recommended, what problems there are etc), but from my experience running a Linux derivate gives much more flexibility than using Windows (for example availability of hard real-time approaches).
In ancient times we had a Pocket PC with Windows CE running on our humanoid robots, then in 2008 and 2009 we used Linux and a Geode LX800 (500MHz) based board and starting 2009/2010 we now use a FitPC2 with a Atom Z530 CPU.

Our humanoid robots are currently running a Voyage Linux version (http://linux.voyage.hk/). I guess a stripped down Ubuntu would also work well. Currently, the whole cognition process (image processing, world modeling, behavior/planning) runs at camera framerate of 30Hz (640x480 YUV422 images). Of course, the Atom is quite a bit more powerful than the Roboard.
Code can be compiled for different architectures (and even OSes), so I compile it for 64Bit Ubuntu on my computer and can test stuff using simulation. For use on the robot it gets compiled using the right compiler options for the Atom CPU.
I use QtCreator as an IDE, it is very lightweight, fast and user friendly. IMHO much better than the relatively sluggish VS2008 for example.

I'm not familiar with details of the Roboard (e.g. which Linux versions are recommended, what problems there are etc), but from my experience running a Linux derivate gives much more flexibility than using Windows (for example availability of hard real-time approaches).
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Post by robaldo » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:42 pm

Post by robaldo
Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:42 pm

SK wrote:In ancient times we had a Pocket PC with Windows CE running on our humanoid robots, then in 2008 and 2009 we used Linux and a Geode LX800 (500MHz) based board and starting 2009/2010 we now use a FitPC2 with a Atom Z530 CPU.


wow
that sounds really great!
but we have bought the Roboard and it's small enough to use with Bioloid!

i have worked with Qt-Creator and it's just as what u said!
maybe i would have tested linux on roboard to see the differences with windows!

do you offer voyage for Roboard? has anybody tried it before?
SK wrote:In ancient times we had a Pocket PC with Windows CE running on our humanoid robots, then in 2008 and 2009 we used Linux and a Geode LX800 (500MHz) based board and starting 2009/2010 we now use a FitPC2 with a Atom Z530 CPU.


wow
that sounds really great!
but we have bought the Roboard and it's small enough to use with Bioloid!

i have worked with Qt-Creator and it's just as what u said!
maybe i would have tested linux on roboard to see the differences with windows!

do you offer voyage for Roboard? has anybody tried it before?
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Post by RoboFlop » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:49 pm

Post by RoboFlop
Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:49 pm

Thanks for the benefit of your experience SK. I kind of thought there was no (cheap) real time option with a windows OS...I'll have a look through the threads you have posted and build up some more knowledge. I will get another micro SD card tomorrow and see what linux on the roboard "How-to's" are out there and follow one of those. The real-time part can come a little later when I have got to grips with linux basics a little...I am downloading Ubuntu atm for a dual-boot on my main pc...

Robaldo, seems like you are a way further on than me...I will have some questions for you when I get a camera on my bioloid :wink:
Thanks for the benefit of your experience SK. I kind of thought there was no (cheap) real time option with a windows OS...I'll have a look through the threads you have posted and build up some more knowledge. I will get another micro SD card tomorrow and see what linux on the roboard "How-to's" are out there and follow one of those. The real-time part can come a little later when I have got to grips with linux basics a little...I am downloading Ubuntu atm for a dual-boot on my main pc...

Robaldo, seems like you are a way further on than me...I will have some questions for you when I get a camera on my bioloid :wink:
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Post by robaldo » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:08 pm

Post by robaldo
Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:08 pm

RoboFlop wrote:Robaldo, seems like you are a way further on than me...I will have some questions for you when I get a camera on my bioloid :wink:


I'm a beginner in Bioloid and Roboard!
the only thing i want is to learn together with help of others!
RoboFlop wrote:Robaldo, seems like you are a way further on than me...I will have some questions for you when I get a camera on my bioloid :wink:


I'm a beginner in Bioloid and Roboard!
the only thing i want is to learn together with help of others!
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Post by RoboFlop » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:38 pm

Post by RoboFlop
Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:38 pm

I am a beginner in Bioloid and Roboard too - and now Linux as well :shock: ...lots to learn at the moment but its interesting - so much easier than if I was studying against my will for a qualification or something :wink:

Happy to collaborate and share experience Robaldo - I will be installing Ubuntu on my RB100 shortly...
I am a beginner in Bioloid and Roboard too - and now Linux as well :shock: ...lots to learn at the moment but its interesting - so much easier than if I was studying against my will for a qualification or something :wink:

Happy to collaborate and share experience Robaldo - I will be installing Ubuntu on my RB100 shortly...
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Post by SK » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:52 am

Post by SK
Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:52 am

To clarify:
I have no idea what works best on the Roboard as I have no experience with it, my remarks weren't made with a specific computation platform in mind but more general.

Note that all computations with hard real-time constrains are currently handled by the microcontroller in the Dribblers' humanoids, so we currently use a Voyage Debian without real-time extensions for all the high level cognition processing that takes place on the Atom CPU. So depending on the setup one might not need a hard-realtime kernel.
To clarify:
I have no idea what works best on the Roboard as I have no experience with it, my remarks weren't made with a specific computation platform in mind but more general.

Note that all computations with hard real-time constrains are currently handled by the microcontroller in the Dribblers' humanoids, so we currently use a Voyage Debian without real-time extensions for all the high level cognition processing that takes place on the Atom CPU. So depending on the setup one might not need a hard-realtime kernel.
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