Roboard, Window XP Installs....

Based on DMP's Vortex processor / SoC this board is a full computer capable of running a standard Windows and Linux installation on the backpack of your robot.
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21 postsPage 1 of 21, 2

Roboard, Window XP Installs....

Post by sniperscope » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:56 am

Post by sniperscope
Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:56 am

I get up to the point in the install where Windows has to reboot. It reboots and I get the Press any key to boot from CD which I leave alone as per the instructions on the install. But, then I get a Missing Operating System. I took the micro card out and checked it on my computer. The windows files are there. Could someone help me get past this issue. Dam so close but I cant get past this screen. Or do I have to re-config the boot up in Bios? Thanks to whoever responds.
John
I get up to the point in the install where Windows has to reboot. It reboots and I get the Press any key to boot from CD which I leave alone as per the instructions on the install. But, then I get a Missing Operating System. I took the micro card out and checked it on my computer. The windows files are there. Could someone help me get past this issue. Dam so close but I cant get past this screen. Or do I have to re-config the boot up in Bios? Thanks to whoever responds.
John
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Post by PedroR » Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:15 pm

Post by PedroR
Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:15 pm

What kind of error are you seeing?

a)
Is it white text on black background? If that's the case you need to go into the BIOS and set the SD card as the first boot device.


b) If you're getting an error with White text on Blue background (a typical windows bluescreen) then that's a known issue (there is a work around though).
It happens due to the custom IDE drivers (ite_atapiwin) not being installed properly and not loading before the kernel.

I myself at Robosavvy, have created a modified version of the Drivers that work with windows xp.
May I ask which method you used to perform the install? Did you use a USB floppy drive or did you use nLite to slipstream the drivers?
What kind of error are you seeing?

a)
Is it white text on black background? If that's the case you need to go into the BIOS and set the SD card as the first boot device.


b) If you're getting an error with White text on Blue background (a typical windows bluescreen) then that's a known issue (there is a work around though).
It happens due to the custom IDE drivers (ite_atapiwin) not being installed properly and not loading before the kernel.

I myself at Robosavvy, have created a modified version of the Drivers that work with windows xp.
May I ask which method you used to perform the install? Did you use a USB floppy drive or did you use nLite to slipstream the drivers?
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Post by sniperscope » Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:29 pm

Post by sniperscope
Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:29 pm

Hello PedroR: Thank you for such a quick response. I get the White text on black background. I will change the Bios set the SD card this evening. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks again.
John
Hello PedroR: Thank you for such a quick response. I get the White text on black background. I will change the Bios set the SD card this evening. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks again.
John
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Roboard and Windows XP Install...

Post by sniperscope » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:52 pm

Post by sniperscope
Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:52 pm

Well I did it. I started over last night at around 7pm and finished my first round close to 2am installing the OS on my Roboard.

One thing I did not anticipate was Windows XP wanting access to a CD with Service Park 1. I had to use my PC to burn a copy of SP1 which is now SP3 in one package.

Once I got past this hurdle the rest took excruciating long. Several times I thought the system had stalled but that's just how long it takes for the install to go through.

Tonight's tasks are to install better VGA drivers and to get internet access.

PedroR: I should have done it your way. As a matter a fact I need to learn how you did it in case my systems crashes and have to start all over.
Regards
John
Well I did it. I started over last night at around 7pm and finished my first round close to 2am installing the OS on my Roboard.

One thing I did not anticipate was Windows XP wanting access to a CD with Service Park 1. I had to use my PC to burn a copy of SP1 which is now SP3 in one package.

Once I got past this hurdle the rest took excruciating long. Several times I thought the system had stalled but that's just how long it takes for the install to go through.

Tonight's tasks are to install better VGA drivers and to get internet access.

PedroR: I should have done it your way. As a matter a fact I need to learn how you did it in case my systems crashes and have to start all over.
Regards
John
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Post by PedroR » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:01 pm

Post by PedroR
Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:01 pm

It's common for Roboard to take a long time to install windows xp.

In particular the part that takes the longest is hardware detection.
We need to keep our expectations realistic: it's a board that runs an x86 processor with very low power usage, small size and a lot of extensibility.... all this comes at a cost.

However, from my experience, XP works but the BEST performance is achieved by running BartPE (a lightweight XP install).

If you have the time, google for BartPE. It is in essence a lightweight install of windows XP, with only the kernel, the base Win32 API and base drivers.

On top of this you can add your own layers of complexity (VB runtimes, C++ runtimes, .Net, browsers, rmeote access clients (ultravnc), windows device drivers for additional devices, etc etc).

I myself have tested it with Roboard and I can confirm it works very well and very fast. It's still XP but without the unnecessary overhead.

The reason why a full XP install seems to perform not so well is because of all the overhead it has: session manager, security layers, etc etc.
When compared, at boot a BartPE install has only 4 processes running against about 30 in a typical XP install.

For a robot we don't need all this overhead.

I now have other projects in hands but I may get back to producing a tutorial on preparing a fairly complete and optimized BartPE build.

I might also post a full tutorial on installing Windows XP using the nLite method.

It might also be worth trying to run Windows XP with only Service Pack 1.
Service Pack 2 added a LOT of overhead so maybe SP1 will perform much better.
It's common for Roboard to take a long time to install windows xp.

In particular the part that takes the longest is hardware detection.
We need to keep our expectations realistic: it's a board that runs an x86 processor with very low power usage, small size and a lot of extensibility.... all this comes at a cost.

However, from my experience, XP works but the BEST performance is achieved by running BartPE (a lightweight XP install).

If you have the time, google for BartPE. It is in essence a lightweight install of windows XP, with only the kernel, the base Win32 API and base drivers.

On top of this you can add your own layers of complexity (VB runtimes, C++ runtimes, .Net, browsers, rmeote access clients (ultravnc), windows device drivers for additional devices, etc etc).

I myself have tested it with Roboard and I can confirm it works very well and very fast. It's still XP but without the unnecessary overhead.

The reason why a full XP install seems to perform not so well is because of all the overhead it has: session manager, security layers, etc etc.
When compared, at boot a BartPE install has only 4 processes running against about 30 in a typical XP install.

For a robot we don't need all this overhead.

I now have other projects in hands but I may get back to producing a tutorial on preparing a fairly complete and optimized BartPE build.

I might also post a full tutorial on installing Windows XP using the nLite method.

It might also be worth trying to run Windows XP with only Service Pack 1.
Service Pack 2 added a LOT of overhead so maybe SP1 will perform much better.
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Roboard and Windows XP Install...

Post by sniperscope » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:56 pm

Post by sniperscope
Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:56 pm

Hello PedroR: Once u do I will re-install following your tutorial. Thanks and regards.
John

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=

I now have other projects in hands but I may get back to producing a tutorial on preparing a fairly complete and optimized BartPE build.

I might also post a full tutorial on installing Windows XP using the nLite method.
Hello PedroR: Once u do I will re-install following your tutorial. Thanks and regards.
John

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=

I now have other projects in hands but I may get back to producing a tutorial on preparing a fairly complete and optimized BartPE build.

I might also post a full tutorial on installing Windows XP using the nLite method.
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Roboard and Windows XP Install...

Post by sniperscope » Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:59 pm

Post by sniperscope
Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:59 pm

PedroR: After thinking about it I am going to try and learn how to do the install using BartPE/slipstream etc. All new to me so I have a little bit of a learning curve to master first.
Regards
John
PedroR: After thinking about it I am going to try and learn how to do the install using BartPE/slipstream etc. All new to me so I have a little bit of a learning curve to master first.
Regards
John
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Post by PedroR » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:52 pm

Post by PedroR
Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:52 pm

Hi John

If you have any questions please let me know.

For BartPE on the Roboard I STRONGLY recommend your start with this tutorial here http://www.vandomburg.net/installing-wi ... -from-usb/

Just follow Step 1 and Step 2.
The other steps are not important for what you want to do.

Don't be fooled by the title: the important thing is that the tuturial explains how to build BartPE and have it boot from USB (or SD card in our case).

I have tested with USB but I'm quite confident you can use a card reader and use your SD card instead.

You will also need to use the option in BartPE to include the IDE drivers. You may try with the ones from Roboard (which I'm not sure will work properly) or instead use the ones we modified at Robosavvy: http://robosavvy.com/Builders/PedroR/Ro ... vvyFix.zip

I have tested these with nLite on Win XP english, SP3. I'm confident they'll also work with BartPE.
Hi John

If you have any questions please let me know.

For BartPE on the Roboard I STRONGLY recommend your start with this tutorial here http://www.vandomburg.net/installing-wi ... -from-usb/

Just follow Step 1 and Step 2.
The other steps are not important for what you want to do.

Don't be fooled by the title: the important thing is that the tuturial explains how to build BartPE and have it boot from USB (or SD card in our case).

I have tested with USB but I'm quite confident you can use a card reader and use your SD card instead.

You will also need to use the option in BartPE to include the IDE drivers. You may try with the ones from Roboard (which I'm not sure will work properly) or instead use the ones we modified at Robosavvy: http://robosavvy.com/Builders/PedroR/Ro ... vvyFix.zip

I have tested these with nLite on Win XP english, SP3. I'm confident they'll also work with BartPE.
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Roboard and Windows XP Install...

Post by sniperscope » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:01 pm

Post by sniperscope
Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:01 pm

Good Morning PedroR: Well, last night I made conducted my first attempt to familiarize myself with BartPE. I took the following steps.
A- Installed BartPE

B- Copied my CD WindowsXP to a folder on my desktop. My ver. of windows has the file WIN51P.SP1

C- Started BartPE search, which found the WinCD folder on my desktop allowing me the option for a build.

D- I took at look at the plug-in's option just to familiarize and could see what BartPE is skipping to keep the install with a small footprint.

E- I made the build to a directory just to see how things went, there were no errors.

Questions:
1- The file you made for the Roboard. I attempted to add that file as a plug in which BartPE would not allow me to do. So instead, I copied and pasted the 3 files to the root directory of the build file. Is this correct?

2- I missed a step by not installing windows 2003 server service park 1. To be honest, I'm moving this whole process from my Vista desktop to my Windows XP laptop in case I screw up. Just to be clear, the term UNPACKING an exe file using the -x command at the end will allow me to install the files to folder and not start the install process on my PC?

3- Now let's lets fast forward where I have a new build made with all the requirements listed above. I then transfer that file to my micro SD card via my reader?

4- If yes, how do I start the install process within the build folder now in the mirco SD card?

5- Overall I know I am missing a few steps and just need to clear up a few unknowns as this is the very first time I try something like this.
My personal opinion so far is that clearly your install process (once I get the hang of it) will greatly enhance my Roboard in regards to speed.
Thanks
John
Good Morning PedroR: Well, last night I made conducted my first attempt to familiarize myself with BartPE. I took the following steps.
A- Installed BartPE

B- Copied my CD WindowsXP to a folder on my desktop. My ver. of windows has the file WIN51P.SP1

C- Started BartPE search, which found the WinCD folder on my desktop allowing me the option for a build.

D- I took at look at the plug-in's option just to familiarize and could see what BartPE is skipping to keep the install with a small footprint.

E- I made the build to a directory just to see how things went, there were no errors.

Questions:
1- The file you made for the Roboard. I attempted to add that file as a plug in which BartPE would not allow me to do. So instead, I copied and pasted the 3 files to the root directory of the build file. Is this correct?

2- I missed a step by not installing windows 2003 server service park 1. To be honest, I'm moving this whole process from my Vista desktop to my Windows XP laptop in case I screw up. Just to be clear, the term UNPACKING an exe file using the -x command at the end will allow me to install the files to folder and not start the install process on my PC?

3- Now let's lets fast forward where I have a new build made with all the requirements listed above. I then transfer that file to my micro SD card via my reader?

4- If yes, how do I start the install process within the build folder now in the mirco SD card?

5- Overall I know I am missing a few steps and just need to clear up a few unknowns as this is the very first time I try something like this.
My personal opinion so far is that clearly your install process (once I get the hang of it) will greatly enhance my Roboard in regards to speed.
Thanks
John
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Post by PedroR » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:57 pm

Post by PedroR
Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:57 pm

Questions:
1- The file you made for the Roboard. I attempted to add that file as a plug in which BartPE would not allow me to do. So instead, I copied and pasted the 3 files to the root directory of the build file. Is this correct?

The file we created is not a plug in. It is a modified version of the IDE drivers that allow slipstreaming and using BartPE.
You just need to extract the contents of the ZIP file into "C:\pebuilder3110a\drivers\SCSIAdapter" (adjust the path if you did not install BartPE to C:\pebuilder3110a).
When you build make sure it reports no errors, about any of the IDe driver files.

2- I missed a step by not installing windows 2003 server service park 1. To be honest, I'm moving this whole process from my Vista desktop to my Windows XP laptop in case I screw up. Just to be clear, the term UNPACKING an exe file using the -x command at the end will allow me to install the files to folder and not start the install process on my PC?

You will NOT install the Windows Server 2003 SP onto your computer (it won't let you even if you try).
By using the -x switch it will only extract the files to a folder. You can do it on any computer. Vista works as well. Because it's a simple extract (just like extracting a ZIP file) nothing in your computer is changed.

Now let's lets fast forward where I have a new build made with all the requirements listed above. I then transfer that file to my micro SD card via my reader?

Yes. Once you're done, you transfer the installation onto your SD card using the SD card reader.
I have tested that procedure using a USB thumb drive but I assume it also works on a USB card reader given they use the same mass storage device architecture of Windows.

4- If yes, how do I start the install process within the build folder now in the mirco SD card?

To transfer the files, you need to use a tool called pe2USB. Please see Steo 2, item 10 here http://www.vandomburg.net/installing-wi ... -from-usb/
If you got the Roboard from us you should have received a 1Gb SD card which is perfect for this task.
(the pe2usb tool *may* be unable to work with drivers larger than 1Gb)

5- Overall I know I am missing a few steps and just need to clear up a few unknowns as this is the very first time I try something like this.
My personal opinion so far is that clearly your install process (once I get the hang of it) will greatly enhance my Roboard in regards to speed.

Getting to know BartPE may require a bit of trying and testing, specially when you start adding plug ins.
I myself am only familiar up to the point of creating a basic bootable system.
Putting a basic setup up and running is not hard and you have asked about everything you need to know :)

However you'll want to start adding other things as you go such as VB runtime files, maybe UltraVNC, etc.
The upside is that there a TON of documentation, forum threads, etc on the Internet asking just about each and every modification or situation with BartPE :)

TIP: Using a VirtualMachine is also useful in testing phases when adding plugins. You set everything up and build an ISO for BartPE. You then boot the iso on the virtual machine to test it.
Once you come a fully functional confguration you make the final build and put it on the SD card for the Roboard.

As I mentioned the Roboard is on the side currently as other projects have come up but I'll be glad to help you with all your questions.
Once I have the time, I'll try to put it all in a step by step tuturial with lots of screenshots!

I can confirm and assure you that the running barte on the roboard is waaayyy faster and let's you take the best advantage of the board's features.
Questions:
1- The file you made for the Roboard. I attempted to add that file as a plug in which BartPE would not allow me to do. So instead, I copied and pasted the 3 files to the root directory of the build file. Is this correct?

The file we created is not a plug in. It is a modified version of the IDE drivers that allow slipstreaming and using BartPE.
You just need to extract the contents of the ZIP file into "C:\pebuilder3110a\drivers\SCSIAdapter" (adjust the path if you did not install BartPE to C:\pebuilder3110a).
When you build make sure it reports no errors, about any of the IDe driver files.

2- I missed a step by not installing windows 2003 server service park 1. To be honest, I'm moving this whole process from my Vista desktop to my Windows XP laptop in case I screw up. Just to be clear, the term UNPACKING an exe file using the -x command at the end will allow me to install the files to folder and not start the install process on my PC?

You will NOT install the Windows Server 2003 SP onto your computer (it won't let you even if you try).
By using the -x switch it will only extract the files to a folder. You can do it on any computer. Vista works as well. Because it's a simple extract (just like extracting a ZIP file) nothing in your computer is changed.

Now let's lets fast forward where I have a new build made with all the requirements listed above. I then transfer that file to my micro SD card via my reader?

Yes. Once you're done, you transfer the installation onto your SD card using the SD card reader.
I have tested that procedure using a USB thumb drive but I assume it also works on a USB card reader given they use the same mass storage device architecture of Windows.

4- If yes, how do I start the install process within the build folder now in the mirco SD card?

To transfer the files, you need to use a tool called pe2USB. Please see Steo 2, item 10 here http://www.vandomburg.net/installing-wi ... -from-usb/
If you got the Roboard from us you should have received a 1Gb SD card which is perfect for this task.
(the pe2usb tool *may* be unable to work with drivers larger than 1Gb)

5- Overall I know I am missing a few steps and just need to clear up a few unknowns as this is the very first time I try something like this.
My personal opinion so far is that clearly your install process (once I get the hang of it) will greatly enhance my Roboard in regards to speed.

Getting to know BartPE may require a bit of trying and testing, specially when you start adding plug ins.
I myself am only familiar up to the point of creating a basic bootable system.
Putting a basic setup up and running is not hard and you have asked about everything you need to know :)

However you'll want to start adding other things as you go such as VB runtime files, maybe UltraVNC, etc.
The upside is that there a TON of documentation, forum threads, etc on the Internet asking just about each and every modification or situation with BartPE :)

TIP: Using a VirtualMachine is also useful in testing phases when adding plugins. You set everything up and build an ISO for BartPE. You then boot the iso on the virtual machine to test it.
Once you come a fully functional confguration you make the final build and put it on the SD card for the Roboard.

As I mentioned the Roboard is on the side currently as other projects have come up but I'll be glad to help you with all your questions.
Once I have the time, I'll try to put it all in a step by step tuturial with lots of screenshots!

I can confirm and assure you that the running barte on the roboard is waaayyy faster and let's you take the best advantage of the board's features.
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Roboard and Windows XP Install...

Post by sniperscope » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:59 pm

Post by sniperscope
Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:59 pm

Thanks. Will continue tonight and learn as I go along. Since the Mirco Cards are so darn cheap now going to buy an extra one for this process since I already have my Roboard working.......I just want it working faster hahaha.
John
Thanks. Will continue tonight and learn as I go along. Since the Mirco Cards are so darn cheap now going to buy an extra one for this process since I already have my Roboard working.......I just want it working faster hahaha.
John
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Roboard, Window XP Installs....

Post by sniperscope » Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:18 pm

Post by sniperscope
Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:18 pm

Hello PedroR: UPDATE: I have followed the instrucitons to the letter and have created the build.

Now I should simply copy the BartPE folder to my microcard and boot up Roboard? Or am I missing something.
Thanks
John
Hello PedroR: UPDATE: I have followed the instrucitons to the letter and have created the build.

Now I should simply copy the BartPE folder to my microcard and boot up Roboard? Or am I missing something.
Thanks
John
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R

Post by sniperscope » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:34 pm

Post by sniperscope
Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:34 pm

UPDATE: Step 6 would not work for me. I get a fast message and nothing else. I installed ramdisk.sys from another program and then ran step 10 which worked great.

Upon completing step 11 I inserted the microdrive and booted up Roboard. I get a blinking underscore against a black screen but nothing else happens. I will continue my re-search and report back.
John
UPDATE: Step 6 would not work for me. I get a fast message and nothing else. I installed ramdisk.sys from another program and then ran step 10 which worked great.

Upon completing step 11 I inserted the microdrive and booted up Roboard. I get a blinking underscore against a black screen but nothing else happens. I will continue my re-search and report back.
John
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Post by ries » Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:28 am

Post by ries
Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:28 am

Hi Sniperscope,

and did you find a way to install windows xp on the micro sd-card?

I'm also trying to do this and I get stuck at how to install windows on a micro sd-card.
I use BartPE and the micro sd-card is bootable and will start with BartPE.

I have even tried to copy the \i386 folder to the sd-card as written by
http://www.vandomburg.net/installing-wi ... -from-usb/
but when using step 6:
D:\i386\winnt32.exe /syspart:C: /tempdrive:C: /makelocalsource. Replace C: with the drive you want to install Windows to

where the system says that there is no winnt32.exe :S

So what are the correct steps to install windows on the micro sd-card with BartPE

Many thanks in advance,
Hi Sniperscope,

and did you find a way to install windows xp on the micro sd-card?

I'm also trying to do this and I get stuck at how to install windows on a micro sd-card.
I use BartPE and the micro sd-card is bootable and will start with BartPE.

I have even tried to copy the \i386 folder to the sd-card as written by
http://www.vandomburg.net/installing-wi ... -from-usb/
but when using step 6:
D:\i386\winnt32.exe /syspart:C: /tempdrive:C: /makelocalsource. Replace C: with the drive you want to install Windows to

where the system says that there is no winnt32.exe :S

So what are the correct steps to install windows on the micro sd-card with BartPE

Many thanks in advance,
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Post by PedroR » Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:57 pm

Post by PedroR
Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:57 pm

i think there's a bit of confusion about the purpose of BartPE:

Using BartPE to install Windows XP is not really the purpose of BartPE nor the purpose of using BartPE on the roboard.

I have tried the tutorial you mention and although I was able to go through the first half of the install (meaning if you aregetting winnt32.exe not found you probably did something wrong; it's not a Roboard issue because I was able to get past that) I couldn't go through the whole thing at the time because I hadn't developped the modified IDE drivers yet.

In any case, the bestis really to use an external CDROM to install Windows XP.

BartPE was my suggestion to all those who want to wnat to run a lightweight, highly optmized version of the Windows Kernel.
This means, with BartPE you make the BartPE build and there is NO windows install to the sd card.
Once you have built BartPE on your local PC, run the pe2usb on your local PC to copy the BartPE the files to your SD card, you're good to go. Just insert the SD card and boot the Roboard.
The functionality that will be available will depend on the plug ins you installed and the drivers you added when building BartPE on your local PC.


If your purpose is to run a full / complete windows install then don't use BartPE.
Use a USB CDRom and install Windows from CD on the Roboard.
i think there's a bit of confusion about the purpose of BartPE:

Using BartPE to install Windows XP is not really the purpose of BartPE nor the purpose of using BartPE on the roboard.

I have tried the tutorial you mention and although I was able to go through the first half of the install (meaning if you aregetting winnt32.exe not found you probably did something wrong; it's not a Roboard issue because I was able to get past that) I couldn't go through the whole thing at the time because I hadn't developped the modified IDE drivers yet.

In any case, the bestis really to use an external CDROM to install Windows XP.

BartPE was my suggestion to all those who want to wnat to run a lightweight, highly optmized version of the Windows Kernel.
This means, with BartPE you make the BartPE build and there is NO windows install to the sd card.
Once you have built BartPE on your local PC, run the pe2usb on your local PC to copy the BartPE the files to your SD card, you're good to go. Just insert the SD card and boot the Roboard.
The functionality that will be available will depend on the plug ins you installed and the drivers you added when building BartPE on your local PC.


If your purpose is to run a full / complete windows install then don't use BartPE.
Use a USB CDRom and install Windows from CD on the Roboard.
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