18DOF "HUNO", nothing but problems...

Korean company maker of Robot kits and servos designed for of articulated robots. Re-incarnation of Megarobotics.
4 postsPage 1 of 1
4 postsPage 1 of 1

18DOF "HUNO", nothing but problems...

Post by dlc » Sat May 18, 2013 6:15 am

Post by dlc
Sat May 18, 2013 6:15 am

Hi all,

I bought a RoboBuilder that came configured as HUNO and it worked fine, mostly. I then got the 18DOF hip upgrade and am wishing that I left well enough alone. I've been trying for hours to modify the original motion files and zero pose, and unable to get anything to change. It thinks its a HUNO and no setting or project type will change its mind.

Finally I just started a blank "others" expert project to see if I could get it to do ANYTHING in MotionBuilder. No matter what I do I just can't get a new "zero" pose. It keeps setting the HUNO 16DOF zero pose. None of the documentation even talks about setting the zero pose.

All of the documentation talks about doing a HUNO, nothing at all about creating something new (like an 18DOF version). Folks save to import the 16DOF motion files and modify them. But I can't seem to modify them.

Is there a manual or document that really does explain how to use the MotionBuilder software? The manual that came with the robot doesn't, neither does any tutorial or manual that I've found on the site.

I don't have a HUNO now, so that ship has sailed, any examples that start there will fail, you have to set the robot on the "red" other setting and HUNO will turn that LED blue. In fact, when I'm trying to get my "anything" setups and programs to work, the RBC sets to "blue", meaning HUNO.

I'm at wits end and ready to sell this thing or take the hip servos off. I just can't get it to go and I haven't found any manual or tutorial that tells me why.

So crew, how dumb am I and what am I missing?

Thanks,
DLC :(
Hi all,

I bought a RoboBuilder that came configured as HUNO and it worked fine, mostly. I then got the 18DOF hip upgrade and am wishing that I left well enough alone. I've been trying for hours to modify the original motion files and zero pose, and unable to get anything to change. It thinks its a HUNO and no setting or project type will change its mind.

Finally I just started a blank "others" expert project to see if I could get it to do ANYTHING in MotionBuilder. No matter what I do I just can't get a new "zero" pose. It keeps setting the HUNO 16DOF zero pose. None of the documentation even talks about setting the zero pose.

All of the documentation talks about doing a HUNO, nothing at all about creating something new (like an 18DOF version). Folks save to import the 16DOF motion files and modify them. But I can't seem to modify them.

Is there a manual or document that really does explain how to use the MotionBuilder software? The manual that came with the robot doesn't, neither does any tutorial or manual that I've found on the site.

I don't have a HUNO now, so that ship has sailed, any examples that start there will fail, you have to set the robot on the "red" other setting and HUNO will turn that LED blue. In fact, when I'm trying to get my "anything" setups and programs to work, the RBC sets to "blue", meaning HUNO.

I'm at wits end and ready to sell this thing or take the hip servos off. I just can't get it to go and I haven't found any manual or tutorial that tells me why.

So crew, how dumb am I and what am I missing?

Thanks,
DLC :(
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Post by PedroR » Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:51 pm

Post by PedroR
Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:51 pm

Hi dlc

I'm sorry to hear about your issues.

To put it in perspective, the Robobuilder Kit supports 3 pre defined assemblies and then "Custom assembly mode".

The 3 pre defined assemblies (aka "platforms" according to the manual) are: HUNO, DOGGY and DINO.

HUNO consists of 16 DoF in the configuration outlined in the manual.

If you are adding 2 more dof (18 dof) then you are now officially out of HUNO mode and into "CUSTOM platform mode".


Therefore to program this platform you need to:
- Check the manual and set the controller to "CUSTOM platform mode"

- Use the Robobuilder diagnostics tool and check that all servos have individual IDs. If you plan on re using the 16DoF motions, the 2 new DoF should be assigned ID's 16 and 17 I believe. (so that you retain 0-15 of the original HUNO)
If you don't have 18 individual servo IDs then you probably haven't re programmed the IDs of the extra servos. Correct this before continuing.

- In MotionBuilder you need to start a new project in "CUSTOM Platform" (not HUNO).
- Once you have new project in Motion Builder you /might/ be able to import some of the motions of HUNO.

After you've completed your work, you should download the motions to the Robot.
Please note that in Custom Platform mode, the upper part of the remote will NOT work (the left right, front, back, A, B, STOP, ... buttons).

Only the motions you download (which are store din numbers 0-9) will work in custom platform mode.
That's where you need to store your walking and any other gaits.

Regards
Pedro
Hi dlc

I'm sorry to hear about your issues.

To put it in perspective, the Robobuilder Kit supports 3 pre defined assemblies and then "Custom assembly mode".

The 3 pre defined assemblies (aka "platforms" according to the manual) are: HUNO, DOGGY and DINO.

HUNO consists of 16 DoF in the configuration outlined in the manual.

If you are adding 2 more dof (18 dof) then you are now officially out of HUNO mode and into "CUSTOM platform mode".


Therefore to program this platform you need to:
- Check the manual and set the controller to "CUSTOM platform mode"

- Use the Robobuilder diagnostics tool and check that all servos have individual IDs. If you plan on re using the 16DoF motions, the 2 new DoF should be assigned ID's 16 and 17 I believe. (so that you retain 0-15 of the original HUNO)
If you don't have 18 individual servo IDs then you probably haven't re programmed the IDs of the extra servos. Correct this before continuing.

- In MotionBuilder you need to start a new project in "CUSTOM Platform" (not HUNO).
- Once you have new project in Motion Builder you /might/ be able to import some of the motions of HUNO.

After you've completed your work, you should download the motions to the Robot.
Please note that in Custom Platform mode, the upper part of the remote will NOT work (the left right, front, back, A, B, STOP, ... buttons).

Only the motions you download (which are store din numbers 0-9) will work in custom platform mode.
That's where you need to store your walking and any other gaits.

Regards
Pedro
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Post by dlc » Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:06 am

Post by dlc
Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:06 am

PedroR wrote:Hi dlc

I'm sorry to hear about your issues.

To put it in perspective, the Robobuilder Kit supports 3 pre defined assemblies and then "Custom assembly mode".

The 3 pre defined assemblies (aka "platforms" according to the manual) are: HUNO, DOGGY and DINO.

HUNO consists of 16 DoF in the configuration outlined in the manual.

If you are adding 2 more dof (18 dof) then you are now officially out of HUNO mode and into "CUSTOM platform mode".


Therefore to program this platform you need to:
- Check the manual and set the controller to "CUSTOM platform mode"

- Use the Robobuilder diagnostics tool and check that all servos have individual IDs. If you plan on re using the 16DoF motions, the 2 new DoF should be assigned ID's 16 and 17 I believe. (so that you retain 0-15 of the original HUNO)
If you don't have 18 individual servo IDs then you probably haven't re programmed the IDs of the extra servos. Correct this before continuing.

- In MotionBuilder you need to start a new project in "CUSTOM Platform" (not HUNO).
- Once you have new project in Motion Builder you /might/ be able to import some of the motions of HUNO.

After you've completed your work, you should download the motions to the Robot.
Please note that in Custom Platform mode, the upper part of the remote will NOT work (the left right, front, back, A, B, STOP, ... buttons).

Only the motions you download (which are store din numbers 0-9) will work in custom platform mode.
That's where you need to store your walking and any other gaits.

Regards
Pedro


Thanks Pedro.

I figured all that out. But just telling me I can do these things does not impart to me the ability to do these things. I figured out that the documentation is not good enough to do a "custom" motion file. There is no explanation anywhere how to set the "zero" position for the initial posture; two hours of fiddling with this got me nowhere. There is no documentation about how to use and just what are about half of the buttons and tabs on the motion builder. It is like we have been given grudging access to RB's engineering tools, and not really expected to use them. I have found no articles anywhere about anyone reverse-engineering the motionbuilder application to explain what most of it does either. Does no one really use this app to its full extent? Even the simplest things are a mystery; such as: When you open a motion file, what is a "Header File Format"? It always says "ME_FMT#1", but there are other options - what does this mean?

I have LOTS of questions like that, and there are no answers on the web. Should I send "tech support" questions to RB for every item on the motionbuilder, or can I get the secret information from them with one email?

The RB is a super-cool machine, and I've enjoyed what I have discovered and gotten to work (with very little help from the manual), but I'd really like to open up the potential of this little bot!

Regards,
DLC
PedroR wrote:Hi dlc

I'm sorry to hear about your issues.

To put it in perspective, the Robobuilder Kit supports 3 pre defined assemblies and then "Custom assembly mode".

The 3 pre defined assemblies (aka "platforms" according to the manual) are: HUNO, DOGGY and DINO.

HUNO consists of 16 DoF in the configuration outlined in the manual.

If you are adding 2 more dof (18 dof) then you are now officially out of HUNO mode and into "CUSTOM platform mode".


Therefore to program this platform you need to:
- Check the manual and set the controller to "CUSTOM platform mode"

- Use the Robobuilder diagnostics tool and check that all servos have individual IDs. If you plan on re using the 16DoF motions, the 2 new DoF should be assigned ID's 16 and 17 I believe. (so that you retain 0-15 of the original HUNO)
If you don't have 18 individual servo IDs then you probably haven't re programmed the IDs of the extra servos. Correct this before continuing.

- In MotionBuilder you need to start a new project in "CUSTOM Platform" (not HUNO).
- Once you have new project in Motion Builder you /might/ be able to import some of the motions of HUNO.

After you've completed your work, you should download the motions to the Robot.
Please note that in Custom Platform mode, the upper part of the remote will NOT work (the left right, front, back, A, B, STOP, ... buttons).

Only the motions you download (which are store din numbers 0-9) will work in custom platform mode.
That's where you need to store your walking and any other gaits.

Regards
Pedro


Thanks Pedro.

I figured all that out. But just telling me I can do these things does not impart to me the ability to do these things. I figured out that the documentation is not good enough to do a "custom" motion file. There is no explanation anywhere how to set the "zero" position for the initial posture; two hours of fiddling with this got me nowhere. There is no documentation about how to use and just what are about half of the buttons and tabs on the motion builder. It is like we have been given grudging access to RB's engineering tools, and not really expected to use them. I have found no articles anywhere about anyone reverse-engineering the motionbuilder application to explain what most of it does either. Does no one really use this app to its full extent? Even the simplest things are a mystery; such as: When you open a motion file, what is a "Header File Format"? It always says "ME_FMT#1", but there are other options - what does this mean?

I have LOTS of questions like that, and there are no answers on the web. Should I send "tech support" questions to RB for every item on the motionbuilder, or can I get the secret information from them with one email?

The RB is a super-cool machine, and I've enjoyed what I have discovered and gotten to work (with very little help from the manual), but I'd really like to open up the potential of this little bot!

Regards,
DLC
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Post by l3v3rz » Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:13 pm

Post by l3v3rz
Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:13 pm

what is a "Header File Format"?


This is used to enable you to create motion files and store them in C header format for inclusion in your own firmware code - quite a cool feature see C programming guide for details.

I think you make a good point, actionbuilder and motionbuilder haven't really developed over the last 4 years, which is a real shame. I'm sure others on forum have made same point in the past. The good news is though that there are plenty of other programming options.

If you don't mind tethering to a PC (get bluetooth) then you can use Microsoft Robot studio or C# with my robouilderlib DLL (or even Lisp L# - I did a series of posts on using that on this site)

If you want to remain unthethered then you can either go for a full C development (with examples provided by robobuilder as a starter) plus header files from motionbuilder. This is quite complex. Alternatively use my BASIC firmware and develop fairly sophisticated apps - see https://code.google.com/p/robobuilderlib/ for details

I've built all sorts of demos and documented a lot of them on my site including balance demos and continuous walking, responding to sound (it has FFT frequency analysis).
what is a "Header File Format"?


This is used to enable you to create motion files and store them in C header format for inclusion in your own firmware code - quite a cool feature see C programming guide for details.

I think you make a good point, actionbuilder and motionbuilder haven't really developed over the last 4 years, which is a real shame. I'm sure others on forum have made same point in the past. The good news is though that there are plenty of other programming options.

If you don't mind tethering to a PC (get bluetooth) then you can use Microsoft Robot studio or C# with my robouilderlib DLL (or even Lisp L# - I did a series of posts on using that on this site)

If you want to remain unthethered then you can either go for a full C development (with examples provided by robobuilder as a starter) plus header files from motionbuilder. This is quite complex. Alternatively use my BASIC firmware and develop fairly sophisticated apps - see https://code.google.com/p/robobuilderlib/ for details

I've built all sorts of demos and documented a lot of them on my site including balance demos and continuous walking, responding to sound (it has FFT frequency analysis).
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