Has motionbuilder been abandoned?

Korean company maker of Robot kits and servos designed for of articulated robots. Re-incarnation of Megarobotics.
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18 postsPage 1 of 21, 2

Has motionbuilder been abandoned?

Post by Rift » Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:49 pm

Post by Rift
Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:49 pm

Have I missed something at some point? I'm just wondering if this software has been abandoned or are they still working on improving it?

It hasn't been updated since September of last year and its still in beta =/ There so much that could be improved to make it a great piece of software.
Have I missed something at some point? I'm just wondering if this software has been abandoned or are they still working on improving it?

It hasn't been updated since September of last year and its still in beta =/ There so much that could be improved to make it a great piece of software.
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Post by Rift » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:37 pm

Post by Rift
Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:37 pm

Dang 92 views and no one has the slightest clue? Anyone at Robosavy who might have direct contact with RB able to find anything out? This seems to be the most active community on this bot so I figured it would be a good place to find out something.

Iv tried contacting Sunny directly but chances of a reply are slim to none.

I would just be curious to find out iv kind of heavily invested in the system (3 humanoids and a bunch of other RBC units) but it doesn't look like the software is moving anywhere.

Just looking to find out if I will have to jump ship on the controller at one point and find another way to control this stuff.
Dang 92 views and no one has the slightest clue? Anyone at Robosavy who might have direct contact with RB able to find anything out? This seems to be the most active community on this bot so I figured it would be a good place to find out something.

Iv tried contacting Sunny directly but chances of a reply are slim to none.

I would just be curious to find out iv kind of heavily invested in the system (3 humanoids and a bunch of other RBC units) but it doesn't look like the software is moving anywhere.

Just looking to find out if I will have to jump ship on the controller at one point and find another way to control this stuff.
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Post by i-Bot » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:09 pm

Post by i-Bot
Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:09 pm

I have no idea !

The humanoid robot market is so complex, and the often excessive secrecy and poor communication of our Oriental friends does not help.

As my personal opinion, Motionbuilder is a dead end, providing a get you started capability, but little more. The Robobuilder flirtation with MSRS seems also to have gone quiet....

I still like the robobuilder servos, I like the fact they have shared the RBC software, and I love the work of L3V3RZ to enable the Robobuilder to meet its true capability for the developer.

In brief, you have a very competant robot, though don't wait on Robobuilder to enable you to meet its potential or your imagination ! Tell the folks here, what you need.
I have no idea !

The humanoid robot market is so complex, and the often excessive secrecy and poor communication of our Oriental friends does not help.

As my personal opinion, Motionbuilder is a dead end, providing a get you started capability, but little more. The Robobuilder flirtation with MSRS seems also to have gone quiet....

I still like the robobuilder servos, I like the fact they have shared the RBC software, and I love the work of L3V3RZ to enable the Robobuilder to meet its true capability for the developer.

In brief, you have a very competant robot, though don't wait on Robobuilder to enable you to meet its potential or your imagination ! Tell the folks here, what you need.
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Post by limor » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:44 am

Post by limor
Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:44 am

i've passed the question to Robobuilder but in my opinion in order to really be able to support and develop this kind of "standard" robotic software, it must be open-source so that other developers can add functionality. opensource on its own is not even enough. the software needs to be developed in a way that will easily allow people to add code.
i've passed the question to Robobuilder but in my opinion in order to really be able to support and develop this kind of "standard" robotic software, it must be open-source so that other developers can add functionality. opensource on its own is not even enough. the software needs to be developed in a way that will easily allow people to add code.
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Post by Rift » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:45 am

Post by Rift
Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:45 am

Hey there first off apologies for not getting back sooner Iv actually been extremely busy setting up a CnC mill. This mill will be used quite a bit in a bunch of my different robot projects including making some changes to Robobuilder.

Limor thanks for passing my question along although I'm fairly certain of the answer already.

One of the big things that attracted me to this platform was the servos and especially the way they looked. I really hate the boxy square look of most humanoids on the market today. With the Robobuilder this wasn't the case. As a lot of what I will be using these bots for is visual so the look was important in the bigger picture.

As a 3D animator I really liked the idea of the key frame style animation that kits like this and Bioloid use (although the Bioloid software is much more refined and streamlined). The great thing about it is that it removed the often difficult task of programing these great kits. With the software included they really gave you a getup and go setup. I'm still extremely new to Robotics in general and have been dabbling with some Lynxmotion arms BoeBot and these Robobuilders, and I'm even in the process of tearing apart a Roomba. But one of the biggest hurdles for me is learning to program these guys to do the things you want. For someone new like me its quite a daunting and seemingly endless task.

After seeing the software go no where for so long now, and the robot is sold at only 1 place here in the states, it makes a person wonder did I invest in a platform that's just simply going no where.

None the less Iv seen plenty of cool stuff here and this really does seem to be the largest community left for this guy that I can find. I have a bunch of visual changes that I want to make to my 3 Robobuilders, as well as some upgrades like metal gears.

As far as what I want the bots to do. Well I had a few basic motions that I think I can put together in motionbuilder without a problem. I guess my biggest question would be is there a way to make the bots roam autonomously based of your own designed walking gate? Using the distance sensor to avoid things.

Iv also seen some videos of the bot responding to sound. These seemed to be using actionbuilder. Would there be a way to have the bot sit dormant, and then activated by sound without running the software constantly? Or would it be best to run the software but with wireless through something like bluetooth?

This post is getting pretty long already and I don't want to give you guys a novel to read but these are just some of the ideas floating around in my head.

Oh yeah lastly does anyone know of a way to transfer a motion file that is one one RBC to the computer and then to another RBC? I received an RBC with a motion file that I would like to put on the rest of my RBCs.

Thanks again!
Hey there first off apologies for not getting back sooner Iv actually been extremely busy setting up a CnC mill. This mill will be used quite a bit in a bunch of my different robot projects including making some changes to Robobuilder.

Limor thanks for passing my question along although I'm fairly certain of the answer already.

One of the big things that attracted me to this platform was the servos and especially the way they looked. I really hate the boxy square look of most humanoids on the market today. With the Robobuilder this wasn't the case. As a lot of what I will be using these bots for is visual so the look was important in the bigger picture.

As a 3D animator I really liked the idea of the key frame style animation that kits like this and Bioloid use (although the Bioloid software is much more refined and streamlined). The great thing about it is that it removed the often difficult task of programing these great kits. With the software included they really gave you a getup and go setup. I'm still extremely new to Robotics in general and have been dabbling with some Lynxmotion arms BoeBot and these Robobuilders, and I'm even in the process of tearing apart a Roomba. But one of the biggest hurdles for me is learning to program these guys to do the things you want. For someone new like me its quite a daunting and seemingly endless task.

After seeing the software go no where for so long now, and the robot is sold at only 1 place here in the states, it makes a person wonder did I invest in a platform that's just simply going no where.

None the less Iv seen plenty of cool stuff here and this really does seem to be the largest community left for this guy that I can find. I have a bunch of visual changes that I want to make to my 3 Robobuilders, as well as some upgrades like metal gears.

As far as what I want the bots to do. Well I had a few basic motions that I think I can put together in motionbuilder without a problem. I guess my biggest question would be is there a way to make the bots roam autonomously based of your own designed walking gate? Using the distance sensor to avoid things.

Iv also seen some videos of the bot responding to sound. These seemed to be using actionbuilder. Would there be a way to have the bot sit dormant, and then activated by sound without running the software constantly? Or would it be best to run the software but with wireless through something like bluetooth?

This post is getting pretty long already and I don't want to give you guys a novel to read but these are just some of the ideas floating around in my head.

Oh yeah lastly does anyone know of a way to transfer a motion file that is one one RBC to the computer and then to another RBC? I received an RBC with a motion file that I would like to put on the rest of my RBCs.

Thanks again!
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Post by l3v3rz » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:51 am

Post by l3v3rz
Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:51 am

Hi Rift,

First - thanks i-bot for your kind comments wrt to my library.

As far as what I want the bots to do. Well I had a few basic motions that I think I can put together in motionbuilder without a problem. I guess my biggest question would be is there a way to make the bots roam autonomously based of your own designed walking gate? Using the distance sensor to avoid things


Have a look at robobuilderlib - http://code.google.com/p/robobuilderlib/ pepep has built a fantastic example of this in Lisp with the library.

Iv also seen some videos of the bot responding to sound.

Yes this is quite possible - I'm also working at adding FFT to robobuilderlib next release. Having bot dormant is much harder but you can power off the servos easily - by using breakmode. The CPU is probably possible with a wake up on interrupt, would require low level code of course.

As a 3D animator I really liked the idea of the key frame style animation

Me too. Did you know there are 3D models of robobuilder available for download - perhaps we could collaborate if you can "wire the model" up and link it with a Physical model (Physx perhaps) - rather as Limor and his team of minions (sorry students) are doing with ActuatedCharacter.

Oh yeah lastly does anyone know of a way to transfer a motion file that is one one RBC to the computer and then to another RBC? I received an RBC with a motion file that I would like to put on the rest of my RBCs.


Two options spring to mind - the RBC files can be edited in a good text editor - so I think you can hack out the serial number - or edit for each robot. Alternatively you could edit the firmware and make all 3 robots have the same serial number. This can be done using my Baisc firmware - see examples on the project page. I actually don't use RBM files - but convert them to csv files - makes them easier to manipulate and load into programs. The latest new feature on robobuilderlib to load directly the csv file into a matrix and then play that out.


cheers
Hi Rift,

First - thanks i-bot for your kind comments wrt to my library.

As far as what I want the bots to do. Well I had a few basic motions that I think I can put together in motionbuilder without a problem. I guess my biggest question would be is there a way to make the bots roam autonomously based of your own designed walking gate? Using the distance sensor to avoid things


Have a look at robobuilderlib - http://code.google.com/p/robobuilderlib/ pepep has built a fantastic example of this in Lisp with the library.

Iv also seen some videos of the bot responding to sound.

Yes this is quite possible - I'm also working at adding FFT to robobuilderlib next release. Having bot dormant is much harder but you can power off the servos easily - by using breakmode. The CPU is probably possible with a wake up on interrupt, would require low level code of course.

As a 3D animator I really liked the idea of the key frame style animation

Me too. Did you know there are 3D models of robobuilder available for download - perhaps we could collaborate if you can "wire the model" up and link it with a Physical model (Physx perhaps) - rather as Limor and his team of minions (sorry students) are doing with ActuatedCharacter.

Oh yeah lastly does anyone know of a way to transfer a motion file that is one one RBC to the computer and then to another RBC? I received an RBC with a motion file that I would like to put on the rest of my RBCs.


Two options spring to mind - the RBC files can be edited in a good text editor - so I think you can hack out the serial number - or edit for each robot. Alternatively you could edit the firmware and make all 3 robots have the same serial number. This can be done using my Baisc firmware - see examples on the project page. I actually don't use RBM files - but convert them to csv files - makes them easier to manipulate and load into programs. The latest new feature on robobuilderlib to load directly the csv file into a matrix and then play that out.


cheers
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Post by Rift » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:36 am

Post by Rift
Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:36 am

So it would seem that upgrading the RBC kills all the motion files on the bot, I seemed to have lost the motion file that I wanted to put on the rest of them.

Should have known better I suppose.
So it would seem that upgrading the RBC kills all the motion files on the bot, I seemed to have lost the motion file that I wanted to put on the rest of them.

Should have known better I suppose.
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Post by l3v3rz » Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:07 am

Post by l3v3rz
Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:07 am

I think I misunderstood, so do you not have the original RBM file ?

The motion files are downloaded into flash and are generally not affected by upgrades to the standard firmware (or using my DCMP.hex), but if you have software that overwrite the flash (like Basic.hex) you will loose any downloaded motions (but you should have the original file).

As far as I know there is no way of retrieving a motion from the flash with out writing your own software (it would be possible). If you want access to the built in motions then there is a file available with them all in

cheers
I think I misunderstood, so do you not have the original RBM file ?

The motion files are downloaded into flash and are generally not affected by upgrades to the standard firmware (or using my DCMP.hex), but if you have software that overwrite the flash (like Basic.hex) you will loose any downloaded motions (but you should have the original file).

As far as I know there is no way of retrieving a motion from the flash with out writing your own software (it would be possible). If you want access to the built in motions then there is a file available with them all in

cheers
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Post by Rift » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:37 pm

Post by Rift
Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:37 pm

Basically what happened is that the latest RB that I purchased had a motion file on it that I wanted to transfer over to my other two RB's. I did not have the original motion file on my computer.

The firmware on the RBC with this motion file seemed to have never been updated as it was still at 1.something. When I upgraded the firmware all of the motions that are activated with the number buttons on the remote were gone.

I went online last night digging around the Robobuilder website and actually managed to find this file again. The problem I had now is that the RBC is still registered to whomever registered it when they first got it. So when I try to upload the motion file to that particular RBC it said serials don't match. So its not letting me upload it.

Not sure what the point of locking it down like that was, seems like a silly implementation on Robobuilder's part.[/img]
Basically what happened is that the latest RB that I purchased had a motion file on it that I wanted to transfer over to my other two RB's. I did not have the original motion file on my computer.

The firmware on the RBC with this motion file seemed to have never been updated as it was still at 1.something. When I upgraded the firmware all of the motions that are activated with the number buttons on the remote were gone.

I went online last night digging around the Robobuilder website and actually managed to find this file again. The problem I had now is that the RBC is still registered to whomever registered it when they first got it. So when I try to upload the motion file to that particular RBC it said serials don't match. So its not letting me upload it.

Not sure what the point of locking it down like that was, seems like a silly implementation on Robobuilder's part.[/img]
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Post by limor » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:27 pm

Post by limor
Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:27 pm

Robobuilder's reply is that no one has complained about bugs with the software hence no software updates.
Little do they understand that in a world of free everything, what matters is novelty.

After seeing the software go no where for so long now, and the robot is sold at only 1 place here in the states, it makes a person wonder did I invest in a platform that's just simply going no where.

None the less Iv seen plenty of cool stuff here and this really does seem to be the largest community left for this guy that I can find. I have a bunch of visual changes that I want to make to my 3 Robobuilders, as well as some upgrades like metal gears.


Robobuilder is very popular in Korea used extensively in schools and after-school robot clubs. The company is very small and I'm assuming that releasing a new major release for the software is a big investment. Ofcourse open-sourcing the thing would help their business but maybe not so in Korea.

Me too. Did you know there are 3D models of robobuilder available for download - perhaps we could collaborate if you can "wire the model" up and link it with a Physical model (Physx perhaps) - rather as Limor and his team of minions (sorry students) are doing with ActuatedCharacter.


If there are 3D models of robobuilder (with skeletal animation data to identify location of servo axis) then please link or upload and let me and my minions animate the puppet.
Robobuilder's reply is that no one has complained about bugs with the software hence no software updates.
Little do they understand that in a world of free everything, what matters is novelty.

After seeing the software go no where for so long now, and the robot is sold at only 1 place here in the states, it makes a person wonder did I invest in a platform that's just simply going no where.

None the less Iv seen plenty of cool stuff here and this really does seem to be the largest community left for this guy that I can find. I have a bunch of visual changes that I want to make to my 3 Robobuilders, as well as some upgrades like metal gears.


Robobuilder is very popular in Korea used extensively in schools and after-school robot clubs. The company is very small and I'm assuming that releasing a new major release for the software is a big investment. Ofcourse open-sourcing the thing would help their business but maybe not so in Korea.

Me too. Did you know there are 3D models of robobuilder available for download - perhaps we could collaborate if you can "wire the model" up and link it with a Physical model (Physx perhaps) - rather as Limor and his team of minions (sorry students) are doing with ActuatedCharacter.


If there are 3D models of robobuilder (with skeletal animation data to identify location of servo axis) then please link or upload and let me and my minions animate the puppet.
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Post by l3v3rz » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:18 pm

Post by l3v3rz
Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:18 pm

when I try to upload the motion file to that particular RBC it said serials don't match. So its not letting me upload it.


Try loading the file into a text editor and then edit. I think the parameter you want to modify is the third one. Try setting it to all zeros that might work. otherwise if you want to send me the file I'll have a look at it.

cheers
when I try to upload the motion file to that particular RBC it said serials don't match. So its not letting me upload it.


Try loading the file into a text editor and then edit. I think the parameter you want to modify is the third one. Try setting it to all zeros that might work. otherwise if you want to send me the file I'll have a look at it.

cheers
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Post by Rift » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:52 am

Post by Rift
Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:52 am

limor wrote:Robobuilder's reply is that no one has complained about bugs with the software hence no software updates.
Little do they understand that in a world of free everything, what matters is novelty.


Hrm interesting while there may not be a huge amount of bug's they could definitely build upon the software and make it loads more intuitive. Combining actionbuilder into motion builder would be a fantastic start. Letting you use all those sensors in a much more streamlined way. Things like a visual representations of each pose would also greatly improve the usability of the software, and the ability for people with less coding skills to create great motion files.

But like you said all this costs money and if the company is small and getting no negative responses from people then they have no incentive to make changes.

Would be cool if you could somehow hack Bioloids software to work with this bot.

l3v3rz ill give that a try later tonight thanks for the heads up!
limor wrote:Robobuilder's reply is that no one has complained about bugs with the software hence no software updates.
Little do they understand that in a world of free everything, what matters is novelty.


Hrm interesting while there may not be a huge amount of bug's they could definitely build upon the software and make it loads more intuitive. Combining actionbuilder into motion builder would be a fantastic start. Letting you use all those sensors in a much more streamlined way. Things like a visual representations of each pose would also greatly improve the usability of the software, and the ability for people with less coding skills to create great motion files.

But like you said all this costs money and if the company is small and getting no negative responses from people then they have no incentive to make changes.

Would be cool if you could somehow hack Bioloids software to work with this bot.

l3v3rz ill give that a try later tonight thanks for the heads up!
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Post by Rift » Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:25 am

Post by Rift
Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:25 am

l3v3rz wrote:
when I try to upload the motion file to that particular RBC it said serials don't match. So its not letting me upload it.


Try loading the file into a text editor and then edit. I think the parameter you want to modify is the third one. Try setting it to all zeros that might work. otherwise if you want to send me the file I'll have a look at it.

cheers


Worked like a charm =) I have been able to transfer the file to all 3 Robobuilders. Thanks again!


On another note. Has anyone here upgraded any of there servos to full metal gears? I'm curious how much of a performance difference you might notice. This is one of the things Iv been looking into doing to mine.

Also anyone know of a place to get any lipo batteries?
l3v3rz wrote:
when I try to upload the motion file to that particular RBC it said serials don't match. So its not letting me upload it.


Try loading the file into a text editor and then edit. I think the parameter you want to modify is the third one. Try setting it to all zeros that might work. otherwise if you want to send me the file I'll have a look at it.

cheers


Worked like a charm =) I have been able to transfer the file to all 3 Robobuilders. Thanks again!


On another note. Has anyone here upgraded any of there servos to full metal gears? I'm curious how much of a performance difference you might notice. This is one of the things Iv been looking into doing to mine.

Also anyone know of a place to get any lipo batteries?
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Post by Tyberius » Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:22 am

Post by Tyberius
Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:22 am

Their implementation of requiring 'registration' of their microcontrollers is by far the most ridiculous and ludicrous thing I've seen in the robotics industry recently. 2nd most ridiculous goes to their original plan of charging for motion file downloads.

Dear Robobuilder: You are not Apple.
Their implementation of requiring 'registration' of their microcontrollers is by far the most ridiculous and ludicrous thing I've seen in the robotics industry recently. 2nd most ridiculous goes to their original plan of charging for motion file downloads.

Dear Robobuilder: You are not Apple.
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Post by l3v3rz » Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:20 am

Post by l3v3rz
Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:20 am

Worked like a charm =) I have been able to transfer the file to all 3 Robobuilders


Great stuff.

If you're interested in 3D files - here's my progress to date

http://robobuildervc.googlecode.com/fil ... r-full.zip

Ive converted the STP/IGES file into blender format - and started assembling the bot. The models are millimeter accurate - so should be good enough for physics modeling. Not sure how to wire / animate in blender though - still learning.
Worked like a charm =) I have been able to transfer the file to all 3 Robobuilders


Great stuff.

If you're interested in 3D files - here's my progress to date

http://robobuildervc.googlecode.com/fil ... r-full.zip

Ive converted the STP/IGES file into blender format - and started assembling the bot. The models are millimeter accurate - so should be good enough for physics modeling. Not sure how to wire / animate in blender though - still learning.
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