Help choosing a Robot

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19 postsPage 1 of 21, 2

Help choosing a Robot

Post by Crenwick » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:47 am

Post by Crenwick
Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:47 am

Hello,

This is my first post on this forum.

I want to buy a robot for my son birthday and so I could als play with him :wink:

I'm now looking in your forums for a couple of weeks to decide wich robot will be the good one ... I know, it's not simple.

To be honest, for me it's a big invest and I didn't want to make a fault offcourse.

First, I looked at Robophilo but it seems to be only available in USA/Canada, I looked then to the Robobuilder and the Robonova but I really make a decision the one will be the best choice for my son and I.

In terms of possibilities and "upgrades" (like wireless and so) wat should be a good choice ?

Thanks !

Bernard
Hello,

This is my first post on this forum.

I want to buy a robot for my son birthday and so I could als play with him :wink:

I'm now looking in your forums for a couple of weeks to decide wich robot will be the good one ... I know, it's not simple.

To be honest, for me it's a big invest and I didn't want to make a fault offcourse.

First, I looked at Robophilo but it seems to be only available in USA/Canada, I looked then to the Robobuilder and the Robonova but I really make a decision the one will be the best choice for my son and I.

In terms of possibilities and "upgrades" (like wireless and so) wat should be a good choice ?

Thanks !

Bernard
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Post by PedroR » Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:29 am

Post by PedroR
Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:29 am

Hi Bernard

Personally I like the Robobuilder very much because it's a great platform for starters while offering all the features of a high level humanoid (incl.sensors, programming motions and reactions to the environment, etc.). But I'll give you my step by step opinion on each robot that may be suitable for you:

The first question would be how old is your son.

1)
The MechRC is a great robot for absolute beginners. All the difficulties that you may encounter when buying a Humanoid have been ironed out on this robot.
- It comes pre assembled (despite looking a bit like a toy the build quality of the robot, servos and electronics is very good) and includes a very easy to use software.
- It has one limitation though: you can only program new movements; it has no sensors and therefore you can't program reactions to the external environment.
It's a bit like a programmable/intelligent RC car in Human form.
- The software to create new motions is amazingly well done and simple and is very accessible for younger ages.

2)
I would consider the Robobuilder the next step in terms of ease of use/features.
- It comes dis assembled but the assembly mechanism for this robot is very easy to understand and to perform.
This is something unique in the Humanoid market. You still have lots of fun assembling the robot but the assembly procedure is not as complex as other humanoids so it's more accessible.
- Another nice feature is the inclusion of sensors. The editions we sell include a sound sensor and a distance sensor so the robot can be programmed to react to external events. This is one step forward from MechRC.
- It also comes with basic motions pre programmed so you can start using it once you finish assembly.
- The software to program Robobuilder lets you create new motions AND also new behaviours/reactions to external events based on the sensors.
It is not the best software we've seen though; you need to read the manual to understand how it works but once you master it it's quite capable.
It includes "catch and play" functionality like Robonova-I.
- Another advantage to Robobuilder is that you can assemble it 3 different robot shapes: Humanoid, Dog, and Dinosaur so when you get tired of one shape you can change to another and still have more, new, things to do.
- The price is also another very attractive feature. The black model offers great value for money.

3)
As for Robonova it is a robot with a great track record.
Compared to Robobuilder it has some advantages and disadvantages: the advantage is that the programming software is more complete (requires more learning but you can do more complex things).
It has also got some more accessories available when compared to Robobuilder although this is very subjective as it depends on how much you want to spend throughout time in accessories and customization.
The downside to Robonova when compared to Robobuilder is that you can only do one shape (Humanoid) and also the assembly of the robot is more complex.

It really depends on your son's age and how you want to do things with him.
If he's under 13 or if you're not a skilled programmer I would recommend the Robobuilder as it has a smoother learning curve and yet it's very complete for a nice price tag.

If you're looking into exploring true programming and have good assembly and programming skills I would go with Robonova I.

If you want to talk personally to us (robosavvy), you can call us at 0207193 4351.
We understand buying a humanoid is a bit of an investment so we're always available to help you through the choice :)

Pedro.
Hi Bernard

Personally I like the Robobuilder very much because it's a great platform for starters while offering all the features of a high level humanoid (incl.sensors, programming motions and reactions to the environment, etc.). But I'll give you my step by step opinion on each robot that may be suitable for you:

The first question would be how old is your son.

1)
The MechRC is a great robot for absolute beginners. All the difficulties that you may encounter when buying a Humanoid have been ironed out on this robot.
- It comes pre assembled (despite looking a bit like a toy the build quality of the robot, servos and electronics is very good) and includes a very easy to use software.
- It has one limitation though: you can only program new movements; it has no sensors and therefore you can't program reactions to the external environment.
It's a bit like a programmable/intelligent RC car in Human form.
- The software to create new motions is amazingly well done and simple and is very accessible for younger ages.

2)
I would consider the Robobuilder the next step in terms of ease of use/features.
- It comes dis assembled but the assembly mechanism for this robot is very easy to understand and to perform.
This is something unique in the Humanoid market. You still have lots of fun assembling the robot but the assembly procedure is not as complex as other humanoids so it's more accessible.
- Another nice feature is the inclusion of sensors. The editions we sell include a sound sensor and a distance sensor so the robot can be programmed to react to external events. This is one step forward from MechRC.
- It also comes with basic motions pre programmed so you can start using it once you finish assembly.
- The software to program Robobuilder lets you create new motions AND also new behaviours/reactions to external events based on the sensors.
It is not the best software we've seen though; you need to read the manual to understand how it works but once you master it it's quite capable.
It includes "catch and play" functionality like Robonova-I.
- Another advantage to Robobuilder is that you can assemble it 3 different robot shapes: Humanoid, Dog, and Dinosaur so when you get tired of one shape you can change to another and still have more, new, things to do.
- The price is also another very attractive feature. The black model offers great value for money.

3)
As for Robonova it is a robot with a great track record.
Compared to Robobuilder it has some advantages and disadvantages: the advantage is that the programming software is more complete (requires more learning but you can do more complex things).
It has also got some more accessories available when compared to Robobuilder although this is very subjective as it depends on how much you want to spend throughout time in accessories and customization.
The downside to Robonova when compared to Robobuilder is that you can only do one shape (Humanoid) and also the assembly of the robot is more complex.

It really depends on your son's age and how you want to do things with him.
If he's under 13 or if you're not a skilled programmer I would recommend the Robobuilder as it has a smoother learning curve and yet it's very complete for a nice price tag.

If you're looking into exploring true programming and have good assembly and programming skills I would go with Robonova I.

If you want to talk personally to us (robosavvy), you can call us at 0207193 4351.
We understand buying a humanoid is a bit of an investment so we're always available to help you through the choice :)

Pedro.
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Post by limor » Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:37 am

Post by limor
Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:37 am

I think the important thing is to plan some milestones when "playing" with your son in order to have a long term affair with robot education. robobuilder is reconfigurable so you can work in stages starting with wheeled robots, gripper, legs towards humanoid.
I think the important thing is to plan some milestones when "playing" with your son in order to have a long term affair with robot education. robobuilder is reconfigurable so you can work in stages starting with wheeled robots, gripper, legs towards humanoid.
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Post by Crenwick » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:59 pm

Post by Crenwick
Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:59 pm

Hi,

Thank you for the explanations, my son is twelve years.

I'm an electronician and works in the IT world, that's the reason why I spoke about the Robonova :wink:

Our other hobby is modelplanes and helicopters, ok it's not really the same hobby but the understanding of servos in moving parts is well none.

I just tried this morning the two softwares (motionbuilder & Simrobot), I'm not very sure but Simrobot seems to be more easy to use, is it true ?

Another thing that I'm looking for (it's very funny ...) is the voice recognizing, I saw the module for the Robonova but not for Robobuilder.

Sorry for all these questions in one time :oops:

Bernard
Hi,

Thank you for the explanations, my son is twelve years.

I'm an electronician and works in the IT world, that's the reason why I spoke about the Robonova :wink:

Our other hobby is modelplanes and helicopters, ok it's not really the same hobby but the understanding of servos in moving parts is well none.

I just tried this morning the two softwares (motionbuilder & Simrobot), I'm not very sure but Simrobot seems to be more easy to use, is it true ?

Another thing that I'm looking for (it's very funny ...) is the voice recognizing, I saw the module for the Robonova but not for Robobuilder.

Sorry for all these questions in one time :oops:

Bernard
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Post by PedroR » Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:44 pm

Post by PedroR
Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:44 pm

Hi

Indeed the software for Robonova is easier to learn.

Also, the voice recognition module is only available for Robonova, not Robobuilder.

If you have a technical background and already use R/C planes and helicopters you should then enjoy the Robonova.
One more question: are you confortable with programming in BASIC (roboBASIC) or learning it?
It is required to take full advantage of Robonova and that's where Robonova is excellent compared to other robots.

Pedro.
Hi

Indeed the software for Robonova is easier to learn.

Also, the voice recognition module is only available for Robonova, not Robobuilder.

If you have a technical background and already use R/C planes and helicopters you should then enjoy the Robonova.
One more question: are you confortable with programming in BASIC (roboBASIC) or learning it?
It is required to take full advantage of Robonova and that's where Robonova is excellent compared to other robots.

Pedro.
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Post by l3v3rz » Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:17 pm

Post by l3v3rz
Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:17 pm

From the spec it looks like you could connect the VR module to Robobuilder - you would need to make up a lead, but it could connect directly onto the RBC controller via the wcK BUS. It communicates at 115200 baud which is compatible. The programming would be more complicated, and you would have to program Robobuilder in C using the supplied libraries. You might even be able to control from the PC using direct mode (and over bluetooth if you get the optional BT module).

Personally I like and own Robobuilder - its the lego of the robot world, where as Robonova seems more like the Meccano. Both clearly have their merits and I'm sure you'll have fun with either.

cheers
From the spec it looks like you could connect the VR module to Robobuilder - you would need to make up a lead, but it could connect directly onto the RBC controller via the wcK BUS. It communicates at 115200 baud which is compatible. The programming would be more complicated, and you would have to program Robobuilder in C using the supplied libraries. You might even be able to control from the PC using direct mode (and over bluetooth if you get the optional BT module).

Personally I like and own Robobuilder - its the lego of the robot world, where as Robonova seems more like the Meccano. Both clearly have their merits and I'm sure you'll have fun with either.

cheers
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Post by Crenwick » Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:54 am

Post by Crenwick
Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:54 am

Hi,

Yes, BASIC is not a problem for me (i made some projects with PIC's in BASIC) and I think that it's easyer for me to learn to my son than C :wink:

I read through the Robobasic manual and options like setup gyros and LCD seems to be easy for me. I think it will be the beginning of a great adventure for my son and I :D

I will go for Robonova :wink:

@PedroR : Do you know who is Limor ?

Regards,

Bernard
Hi,

Yes, BASIC is not a problem for me (i made some projects with PIC's in BASIC) and I think that it's easyer for me to learn to my son than C :wink:

I read through the Robobasic manual and options like setup gyros and LCD seems to be easy for me. I think it will be the beginning of a great adventure for my son and I :D

I will go for Robonova :wink:

@PedroR : Do you know who is Limor ?

Regards,

Bernard
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Post by PedroR » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:59 am

Post by PedroR
Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:59 am

Hi Bernard

I already saw you have made your choice for the Robonova.
I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun with it :)

With regards to accessories we hope you come back in the near future for extensions for your RN-1.
Extending the robot is also a great part of the fun. IN particular de Voice Recognition module is very impressive.

I would also recommend the gyro and the accelerometer at a later stage.

With regards to your question - "who is Limor?" - he's our CEO on Robosavvy.

Regards
Pedro.
Hi Bernard

I already saw you have made your choice for the Robonova.
I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun with it :)

With regards to accessories we hope you come back in the near future for extensions for your RN-1.
Extending the robot is also a great part of the fun. IN particular de Voice Recognition module is very impressive.

I would also recommend the gyro and the accelerometer at a later stage.

With regards to your question - "who is Limor?" - he's our CEO on Robosavvy.

Regards
Pedro.
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Post by Crenwick » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:17 am

Post by Crenwick
Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:17 am

YES !

Robonova is coming 8)

I think one of the first extensions will be the voice recognition :wink:

Regards,

Bernard
YES !

Robonova is coming 8)

I think one of the first extensions will be the voice recognition :wink:

Regards,

Bernard
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How does Bioloid compare?

Post by UncleBob » Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:57 am

Post by UncleBob
Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:57 am

Hi

I am also a remote helicopter guy and also like to get a robot. RoboBuilder is very amazing, it is the first robot I have seen that can do kicks. I like to program my robot to do MMA tricks and perhaps fight like the UFC. So maybe aluminium is better than plastic in fight?

The most expensive robot in the market is the Bioloid premium. May I ask how does that compare with Bioliod comprehensive and the other robots mention above.

I particularly like the motion builder in Bioliod. I watch their demo video. It makes robot much more fun. Can all the other robots be program this way. I have programming background but I hate to program in C. Eventhough I haven't program in Basic in a decade I think I can still do it.

RoboBuilder is very good value for money and now wire hanging loose.

Which one should I buy ? and do I need to order easy breaking parts too.

Thanks
Hi

I am also a remote helicopter guy and also like to get a robot. RoboBuilder is very amazing, it is the first robot I have seen that can do kicks. I like to program my robot to do MMA tricks and perhaps fight like the UFC. So maybe aluminium is better than plastic in fight?

The most expensive robot in the market is the Bioloid premium. May I ask how does that compare with Bioliod comprehensive and the other robots mention above.

I particularly like the motion builder in Bioliod. I watch their demo video. It makes robot much more fun. Can all the other robots be program this way. I have programming background but I hate to program in C. Eventhough I haven't program in Basic in a decade I think I can still do it.

RoboBuilder is very good value for money and now wire hanging loose.

Which one should I buy ? and do I need to order easy breaking parts too.

Thanks
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Post by PedroR » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:11 am

Post by PedroR
Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:11 am

Hi UncleBob

From what you say, I understand you are looking at a Robot for programming moves (kicking, fighting, etc).
The difference to Bioloid PREMIUM is that this robot is tailored not only for programming moves but also to program behaviors (autonomous behaviors with plenty of sensors).
For this reason it comes with more sensors than Robobuilder (including a full featured 6 axis IMU) and the USB2Dynamixel for direct communication and control of the servos.
It does not have any metal frames so if you're planning some heavy duty use for the robot you may be better suited with robots that have metal frames or can be extended with something like that.


- Robobuilder with: Metal Joints OR Metal Brackets Kit (if you'll be giving it very heavy use).
We also supply spare parts in case you need them (spare joint sets and spare gears).
This is a good choice for budget and will work well for your purpose. It is also a great choice for entering the Humanoid World.

Robobuilder: http://robosavvy.com/store/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=robobuilder
Metal Joints Option for improved strength:
http://robosavvy.com/store/product_info ... cts_id/609
Metal Brackets Option (for best strength and reliability) http://robosavvy.com/store/product_info ... cts_id/533

- If you're only looking for a Robot to program motions and gaits, the Kondo KHR 2HV is likely one of the best choices.

Given Kondo's background, people who come from RC hobbies usually like Kondo robots very much.
The KHR 2HV is also a very good robot for programming gaits/motions because it has very good weight distribution and well positioned center of gravity which results in better results in acrobatic motions/gaits.
It also comes with Metal Brackets by default.

KHR 2HV: http://robosavvy.com/store/product_info ... ucts_id/92

Special Edition/Bundle of KHR 2HV with lots of extras:
http://robosavvy.com/store/product_info ... cts_id/604
Hi UncleBob

From what you say, I understand you are looking at a Robot for programming moves (kicking, fighting, etc).
The difference to Bioloid PREMIUM is that this robot is tailored not only for programming moves but also to program behaviors (autonomous behaviors with plenty of sensors).
For this reason it comes with more sensors than Robobuilder (including a full featured 6 axis IMU) and the USB2Dynamixel for direct communication and control of the servos.
It does not have any metal frames so if you're planning some heavy duty use for the robot you may be better suited with robots that have metal frames or can be extended with something like that.


- Robobuilder with: Metal Joints OR Metal Brackets Kit (if you'll be giving it very heavy use).
We also supply spare parts in case you need them (spare joint sets and spare gears).
This is a good choice for budget and will work well for your purpose. It is also a great choice for entering the Humanoid World.

Robobuilder: http://robosavvy.com/store/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=robobuilder
Metal Joints Option for improved strength:
http://robosavvy.com/store/product_info ... cts_id/609
Metal Brackets Option (for best strength and reliability) http://robosavvy.com/store/product_info ... cts_id/533

- If you're only looking for a Robot to program motions and gaits, the Kondo KHR 2HV is likely one of the best choices.

Given Kondo's background, people who come from RC hobbies usually like Kondo robots very much.
The KHR 2HV is also a very good robot for programming gaits/motions because it has very good weight distribution and well positioned center of gravity which results in better results in acrobatic motions/gaits.
It also comes with Metal Brackets by default.

KHR 2HV: http://robosavvy.com/store/product_info ... ucts_id/92

Special Edition/Bundle of KHR 2HV with lots of extras:
http://robosavvy.com/store/product_info ... cts_id/604
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Keeps changing my mind

Post by UncleBob » Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:28 am

Post by UncleBob
Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:28 am

Hi Pedro

I just find out that KHR-2HV could be within my budget US$1,066.52. (I thin my wife will still kill me seeing the receipt). I have got RC gyro at home, maybe I can use them. I find the Kondo made out of metal and better, plus more flexible which is needed for martial art. I particularly want to train it using some martial art weapons. See how difficult it gets.

Or

The Robobuilder 5710, include sensor + accelerometer. Right ?

or

The robonova which is well within my budget but seeing many people selling it maybe due lack of servo power.

Can you confirm me the price is still correct and have stock ?

Thanks
Hi Pedro

I just find out that KHR-2HV could be within my budget US$1,066.52. (I thin my wife will still kill me seeing the receipt). I have got RC gyro at home, maybe I can use them. I find the Kondo made out of metal and better, plus more flexible which is needed for martial art. I particularly want to train it using some martial art weapons. See how difficult it gets.

Or

The Robobuilder 5710, include sensor + accelerometer. Right ?

or

The robonova which is well within my budget but seeing many people selling it maybe due lack of servo power.

Can you confirm me the price is still correct and have stock ?

Thanks
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Post by PedroR » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:18 am

Post by PedroR
Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:18 am

Hi UncleBob

With regards to Robobuilder 5710, yes it includes 2 sensors (Sound Sensor , Distance Sensor (offer from Robosavvy)) and includes the Accelerometer (another offer from Robosavvy).

The reason why people are selling their Robonovas is because the robot has been around for quite come time now and many people have had for many years now.
I think the reason they are selling is because, having had the robot for so long, it is no longer a novelty for them and it's still worth some money,
Servo power power for Robonova I believe is at a good level, inline with other offers in the same price range.



With regards to the KHR 2HV, I believe we currently have ONE unit in stock.
It is available to be purchased either stand alone or as part of our Christmas Sale (which includes all the sensors/gyros, a nice Genex suit for modding and some other extras).
(The Christmas Sale pack will end by the beginning of January.)

Also note that on Dec 31st (tomorrow), British VAT goes back to 17.5% (it is 15% now).
If you are in a country inside the EU, this means all the prices on our website will increase by 2.5%.
If you are outside the EU you won't be affected by this change (prices will not change) as you always pay the lower price (without VAT).

Regards
Pedro.
Hi UncleBob

With regards to Robobuilder 5710, yes it includes 2 sensors (Sound Sensor , Distance Sensor (offer from Robosavvy)) and includes the Accelerometer (another offer from Robosavvy).

The reason why people are selling their Robonovas is because the robot has been around for quite come time now and many people have had for many years now.
I think the reason they are selling is because, having had the robot for so long, it is no longer a novelty for them and it's still worth some money,
Servo power power for Robonova I believe is at a good level, inline with other offers in the same price range.



With regards to the KHR 2HV, I believe we currently have ONE unit in stock.
It is available to be purchased either stand alone or as part of our Christmas Sale (which includes all the sensors/gyros, a nice Genex suit for modding and some other extras).
(The Christmas Sale pack will end by the beginning of January.)

Also note that on Dec 31st (tomorrow), British VAT goes back to 17.5% (it is 15% now).
If you are in a country inside the EU, this means all the prices on our website will increase by 2.5%.
If you are outside the EU you won't be affected by this change (prices will not change) as you always pay the lower price (without VAT).

Regards
Pedro.
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Keep the initial cost down

Post by UncleBob » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:36 am

Post by UncleBob
Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:36 am

Hi Pedro

if I buy the KHR 2HV without the gyro and accelerarometer and icu cable. Will it work or will it fall over ? I can buy those silently later. I also notice it is very hard to build and calibrate. How is it compare to robonova?
Hi Pedro

if I buy the KHR 2HV without the gyro and accelerarometer and icu cable. Will it work or will it fall over ? I can buy those silently later. I also notice it is very hard to build and calibrate. How is it compare to robonova?
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Post by PedroR » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:42 am

Post by PedroR
Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:42 am

The Robot can be purchased without any extras.
It will work well.

The purpose of the gyro and acc sensors is stabilize the walk Dynamically and be able to get up automatically when it falls.

However if you want to start simple, you can start with the base kit. It will work and will let you program motions onto the robot and play them.

With regards to building and calibrating, Kondo solution is indeed very unique but it is also very well thought.
You do have an extra step with setting the home position but once you master that, the quality of Kondo robots is Excellent.

When you ask how it compares to a Robonova, that's a tough question. I never had any extended period using either of them (just quick encounters with them).
The idea that I have is that Kondo is a great robot for those who want a Robot to do tricks/maneuvers/gaits.
It has the excellent Japanese build quality and Kondo is perceived as one of the best brands in the Humanoid world.

You can have a look at the KHR 2HV assembly manual as well as the software manual (Heart to Heart 3) here http://robosavvy.com/RoboSavvyPages/Support/Kondo/
This will let you have an idea about how the robot is assembled and programmed.

Regards
Pedro.
The Robot can be purchased without any extras.
It will work well.

The purpose of the gyro and acc sensors is stabilize the walk Dynamically and be able to get up automatically when it falls.

However if you want to start simple, you can start with the base kit. It will work and will let you program motions onto the robot and play them.

With regards to building and calibrating, Kondo solution is indeed very unique but it is also very well thought.
You do have an extra step with setting the home position but once you master that, the quality of Kondo robots is Excellent.

When you ask how it compares to a Robonova, that's a tough question. I never had any extended period using either of them (just quick encounters with them).
The idea that I have is that Kondo is a great robot for those who want a Robot to do tricks/maneuvers/gaits.
It has the excellent Japanese build quality and Kondo is perceived as one of the best brands in the Humanoid world.

You can have a look at the KHR 2HV assembly manual as well as the software manual (Heart to Heart 3) here http://robosavvy.com/RoboSavvyPages/Support/Kondo/
This will let you have an idea about how the robot is assembled and programmed.

Regards
Pedro.
Last edited by PedroR on Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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